Last hitting is worth more gold than it seems

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Qutse

Senior Member

07-04-2011

It is a versus game.


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LyraOrpheo

Senior Member

07-04-2011

no wonder HSGG or Regi always go OMG MISSED THAT CS FML


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Fragglerock

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Senior Member

07-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derenriche View Post
part of this is also a play between players. Mathimatically yes, this is much more solid. However, this is a game between players, not a game between bots who do set things by the book. Players react differently to situations such as harass and denial. I've seen many many players get desperate after being denied from last hitting/zoned and end up doing stupid things to get a last hit in so they arnt too far behind in farm. Harassing your opponent is as much about actually denying them of cs as is laying down pressure on them to degrade their gameplay, which can affect them to the point of desperation.

Like I said, there is no solid rule, and every game will be different - I never said harassing was not part of the game - but use good judgment and know that it sometimes isn't worth it and it doesn't take much missed CS to make it not worth it.

And good players typically do things 'by the book'. Being risky and unpredictable I'd say works out less often than it succeeds. In general, the games aren't won on pro moves, they're won on the opposition's mistakes, and you've won when every option they have is a mistake and they can't do anything other than get lucky or hope that your teams screws up.


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iP1ayJarvan

Senior Member

07-05-2011

you can harass AND cs with some AoE


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CGGCAGGAATAA

Member

07-05-2011

You are really undervaluing kills. Gold should be valued relative to your opponents. After a kill, they are losing 1.5~ waves of cs, and you are gaining control of creep position in the lane. Kills are about a lot more than the initial gold return.


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Fragglerock

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Senior Member

07-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by terreo View Post
You are really undervaluing kills. Gold should be valued relative to your opponents. After a kill, they are losing 1.5~ waves of cs, and you are gaining control of creep position in the lane. Kills are about a lot more than the initial gold return.
Whatever, I said one thing about missing 2 minions to fire off one harass shot and everyone keeps on focusing on it and inferring that you should not go after your opponent.

If for some reason you're able to harass the heck out of them and go in for a kill without being wide open to jungle ganks (think vlad), then why not? There is a reason why the pros don't play super aggressive - it's risky. You might lose that 1v1, or their jungle might be waiting for you to try overextending. Even sending them back to base doesn't help you too much because it effectively makes you have to shop, too. last hitting doesn't push too hard, but it does slowly push. If you send them back to base your minions will most likely push to the point that you're overextended and open for a jungle gank... so you may as well shop and heal, too.


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Mokomii

Senior Member

07-05-2011

If your killing to make gold bad idea. if your killing to harrass and prevent them from exp or gold for a min good idea!

also I wish we can save replays and I would post a replay of udyr clearing a lane then killing creeps back to a fully filled lane of minions. I didn't kill a single champion but soloed their entire team due to 3 lvls higher and so much gold. (they screamed that someone feed me :-P)


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Enoy

Senior Member

07-05-2011

I never knew the math , but as Jungle Amumu , I loved those occasions when one of our guys needed to port and I came in to hold the lane for a few. Tears+Tantrum = some serious gold farming.

And don't even get me started on those late game minion farms when you can Last hit the entire wave for 4 waves in a row before your creeps push to their camp.


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Enoy

Senior Member

07-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zingledot View Post
If you send them back to base your minions will most likely push to the point that you're overextended and open for a jungle gank... so you may as well shop and heal, too.

This is when I switch to mid to get off a quick gank before heading back to top. It's about the same time frame as it will take them to get back to their tower and push the creeps up towards mine.


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Fragglerock

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Senior Member

07-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoy View Post
This is when I switch to mid to get off a quick gank before heading back to top. It's about the same time frame as it will take them to get back to their tower and push the creeps up towards mine.
I would say going mid for a gank is probably not super productive. What is the chance of success on this gank? Do they have flash up? Will you accidentally run into their jungle with red while going there? Do they have wards and just gank you instead? If nothing happens at all, then you've wasted time as your opponent is coming back with full health and new items and you've only got your starting item.

The whole game is a risk for reward calculation. There is a lot of risk there for only a chance of reward.


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