Last hitting is worth more gold than it seems

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Fragglerock

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Senior Member

07-04-2011

I played DotA for a long time, and I've been playing LoL for a long time. Only recently did I even do the math on last-hitting.

Essentially, less than 2 and a half waves, not counting the cannon, is worth the same as a champion kill.

So this post is simply to share the perspective. Next time you go shopping when you have full health just to buy something - is that mana crystal really worth missing the waves?

Next time you miss 2 minions to fire 1 shot at the enemy - was that shot worth it? The enemy can kill you twice, but if you're up 30 minion kills, you're even on money.


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Derenriche

Member

07-04-2011

It is pretty well known that last-hitting is very important in this game. Randomly porting back to buy one item that is not critical is very bad for you early game not only becaues of lack of farming but also lack of experience gain. In terms of trading last hits for harass, this one depends on the other champion that you are harassing. If its a tank with regen, I wouldn't bother unless they get really cheeky. If its a nasus whos farming his Q I would throw whatever I can at him. Essentially the game revolves around not your own farm in exact terms, but the relative farm between you and the enemy. If you can deny your opponent of any farm while you only have 40 cs instead of 100 cs, in most cases thats a good trade.


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dovvntempo

Senior Member

07-04-2011

I will remember that.. 2.5 waves


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Fragglerock

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Senior Member

07-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derenriche View Post
It is pretty well known that last-hitting is very important in this game. Randomly porting back to buy one item that is not critical is very bad for you early game not only becaues of lack of farming but also lack of experience gain. In terms of trading last hits for harass, this one depends on the other champion that you are harassing. If its a tank with regen, I wouldn't bother unless they get really cheeky. If its a nasus whos farming his Q I would throw whatever I can at him. Essentially the game revolves around not your own farm in exact terms, but the relative farm between you and the enemy. If you can deny your opponent of any farm while you only have 40 cs instead of 100 cs, in most cases thats a good trade.

Your post is the kind of thing one normally hears, but for me the perspective was always lost. Yes, we know it's bad. Yes we know them getting less "farm" is good. But to make it really seem solid... less than 3 waves is a whole champ kill. For me, that solidifies the importance.


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mojib

Senior Member

07-04-2011

Are you assuming that you're in the solo lane and that the opponent isn't trying to harass you when you last hit? Usually I go in the side lane and have to split the last hits with my ally. Those 2.5 creep waves could turn into 5 assuming you and your ally are last hitting like pros. Mathcrafting is awesome and all, but in practise it is worth trying to get kills. I do agree that it's not worth it to focus solely on harass, but it's still worth it to deny them their last hits as well.


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Space Pope 20K

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Senior Member

07-04-2011

This is really imformitive. The importance of last hitting in low to mid elo games really boggles me. Thank you kindly.

Pro Tip :: If you have mastered your champion in terms of combat, your scores are often positive and reflect this, but how does your CS look? Is it 8th our of 10 people? Improve on this everyone!!!!


[edited for spelling]


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Fragglerock

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Senior Member

07-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojib View Post
Are you assuming that you're in the solo lane and that the opponent isn't trying to harass you when you last hit? Usually I go in the side lane and have to split the last hits with my ally. Those 2.5 creep waves could turn into 5 assuming you and your ally are last hitting like pros. Mathcrafting is awesome and all, but in practise it is worth trying to get kills. I do agree that it's not worth it to focus solely on harass, but it's still worth it to deny them their last hits as well.
No, I think people put too much emphasis on solo lane. Bot lane exists (I bot lane most games), and there is just as much money there, too. If you can last hit better than your lane partner, or if your lane partner is a support and graciously gives you all the money...but that's all besides the point.

The lesson in the thread was simply that you shouldn't take the minions for granted, and 'here is a tangible reason as to why'. How you go about accomplishing this will change from game to game. Every game will be different, so there is no one rule for success, just like there is no one rule for failure.

But one tip I'd give people on the 'trying to get kills' subject:
Kills are not taken by you, they are given by your opponent. I'll watch an ashe/sona lane farm full health and full mana for 15 minutes knowing I can't whittle them down. But when they make a bad initiation, or bad choice of positioning, that's when you put the smack down hard and get yourself a kill. Play defensive... wait for them to screw up. That's why high level games are like watching baseball for the first half; both teams are waiting for mistakes, and both teams are pro and don't make many mistakes.


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cakebatta

Member

07-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zingledot View Post
That's why high level games are like watching baseball for the first half; both teams are waiting for mistakes, and both teams are pro and don't make many mistakes.
Best comparison ever. Maybe that's why i like baseball and LoL tournaments so much, love watching both =P

But yeah the beginning is all farming and focusing on not being attacked, very defensive playstyle. First mistake dies lol


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Derenriche

Member

07-04-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zingledot View Post
Your post is the kind of thing one normally hears, but for me the perspective was always lost. Yes, we know it's bad. Yes we know them getting less "farm" is good. But to make it really seem solid... less than 3 waves is a whole champ kill. For me, that solidifies the importance.
part of this is also a play between players. Mathimatically yes, this is much more solid. However, this is a game between players, not a game between bots who do set things by the book. Players react differently to situations such as harass and denial. I've seen many many players get desperate after being denied from last hitting/zoned and end up doing stupid things to get a last hit in so they arnt too far behind in farm. Harassing your opponent is as much about actually denying them of cs as is laying down pressure on them to degrade their gameplay, which can affect them to the point of desperation.


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Fluffy1

Senior Member

07-04-2011

this is why i facepalm when the team runs half away across the map to kill 1 champion while their team continues farming. i get the same gold for the full kill by staying in my lane. if the goal is to stall their farming just ducking in and lowing their hp is enough. only time one should gank is if it will result in a tower downed or saved.


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