"Plot is highly overrated"

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ThorRush

Senior Member

03-18-2014

That's a nice title you've got there, "Narrative Lead." It'd be a shame if something were to happen to it.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/plo.../1100-6418368/

Oh.

Quote:
But to create believable and compelling characters, developers should make sure that characters' motivations are aligned appropriately with the motivations that they are leading the player to experience as well, Abernathy said.

Also during the talk, co-presenter Richard Rouse III, a design lead at Microsoft, said most players do not finish games. He estimated that only about a third of players actually finish the games they play.
Believable characters. I see. Are we supposed to believe these characters' motivations, when they live in a world we know nothing about? http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ionOfDisbelief

Don't finish games, huh? Maybe because the writers haven't put as much effort into the end of the plot. *ahem* Mass Effect *what?* http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph.../EndingFatigue

Tom Abernathy. Perhaps what you mean to say is that characters cost money, so you are focusing on profit ...


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Motajo

Senior Member

03-18-2014

These articles make me sad


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Grand Viper

Senior Member

03-18-2014

From my skype convo:

[2:54:09 PM] Magnificent Ophidian: My problem with the article
[2:54:14 PM] Magnificent Ophidian: Is that it's a ****ing paradox
[2:54:19 PM] Magnificent Ophidian: People don't like plot, but they like characters
[2:54:22 PM] Magnificent Ophidian: and remember the actions they do
[2:54:32 PM] Magnificent Ophidian: If you remember the actions they do, you tend to remember the context they do it in
[2:54:43 PM] Magnificent Ophidian: And they can only do the actions if there is a world and a stage for them to perform it upon


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Ryugi Kazamaru

Senior Member

03-18-2014

I guess we now know why we're not getting any more lore.

It's overrated, not worth their time, etc.

And to think I was literally just thinking of trying to apply for a "Narrative Editor" position. What narrative could I possibly be editing since everything I'd do is overrated? As an author, this statement absolutely disgusts me.

I've been DMing a Pathfinder campaign set in the League Universe. I can't begin to tell you how important plot is in that game. It is a motivational factor, it gets the players excited about participating. Without the plot, you just have a bunch of people running around, bored, looking for things to do to amuse themselves. The best times in any narrative, be it a game, book, whatever, are the exciting events where you're up against something you've worked for, or in a dire situation that has a lot resting on it. Those things, those moments, are absolutely meaningless without plot! If there is nothing at stake, it's just tripe.

This is a common thread in gaming these days. They focus on what looks prettiest, while gameplay, original ideas, and PLOT suffer dramatically. Aatrox is a perfect example of this belief in action. He is, in my personal opinion, the least inspired, flattest, and most boring character ever to be released. They could have done so, so much more with him. Instead, they made him as generic as they possibly could, tied him in to Tryndamere (again, why?), and set him free to be boring and uninspired.

The only thing of worth he added to League, again in my opinion, was the bit about the Magelords and the Protectorate. That was interesting. Far, far more interesting than Aatrox himself.

If this person is the one in charge of the stories being told, then every single ounce of hatred or animosity we've ever directed at Kitae for whatever reason needs to be shifted to this man. If he's above her on the totem pole, it's very possible he's the one calling the shots for the Lore Team, and making sure that any plot they may want to develop is "overrated" and not worth their time.

But the thing that upsets me the most is that nothing will come of this. We don't have an IronStylus for the Lore Community. In the end, I suppose we should have all seen and understood how little plot means to those in charge.

Otherwise we'd have gotten some by now.


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Vongeo

Senior Member

03-18-2014

Oh man...


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NVDax

Senior Member

03-18-2014

... Really? Don't care if this gets me banned on the forums this guys a ****ing idiot, and does not deserve his title in the slightest if he spouts bs like this. A good story is what sells a lot of people on things, not the "characters", yes the characters are an important part, character development is a GOOD thing. But the plot is key, it sets up the conflict, it gives our hero/villain the drive to do what they do.


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Iraeavin

Member

03-18-2014

That headline is tragically hilarious, "...developers should instead focus on developing strong characters". A "strong" character without a story behind him/her/it is nothing; and guess what, a story has a plot.

How come a company with the ability to hire a writer gives up on its lore while fans with spare time manage to complete sprawling epics? Note that some of these stories fit in with the canon we're given.


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Ryugi Kazamaru

Senior Member

03-18-2014

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=4372098

Made my own thread on this. Got a Red response and some interesting points and conversation to boot.


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Grand Viper

Senior Member

03-18-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kades View Post
Dude, it's a humbling that you're this enthusiastic about the lore. That this thread is rabid with people who feel the same. I don't have another word for it: 'humbling'.


What I've taken from this thread- more than anything else- is that you want more stories. That you guys have a high quality bar, and that you want us to hit it. And that, all things being equal... you wanted it yesterday. ;-)
Kades, I have a question that I need to know the answer to, and I ask this with all due respect: What is Mr. Abernathy's job, and how is it different from Kitae's?

What are the differences between a Narrative Lead and the Lore Lead?

I ask this because I will be touching upon other issues that you may not be able to answer, but this is one that I want to know with complete certainty because I am unsure why there is a disconnect between narrative and lore.

The article could very well, and quite easily, take words out of context. But when it's presented to us like this:

But they also talked about what extensive research has shown: that plot itself doesn’t resonate with a majority of players. Characters, on the other hand, do.

They point to research conducted by Microsoft, indicating “that players really hardly remember the plots of the games that they play. When they were asked, ‘tell me the plot of your favorite movie,’ they did it at length, and very accurately. When they were asked, ‘tell me the plot of your favorite TV show,’ they did it at length, and very accurately. ‘Tell me the plot of your favorite game.’ Not so much at length, not so accurate.”


This is the most baffling statement I've read in months.

How can people remember characters, but not the story, the setting, anything in regards to that? How do they list examples such as "Last of Us" whose greatest strength is the narrative? And in regards to a video game, isn't the narrative, therefore the plot, the most important aspect?

Allow me to explain. I believe the narrative and the plot of a video game comes from several factors, but should be best experienced by the gameplay itself. You are playing a character, it is an interactive story, you are making them do actions, if they get shot you get game over and you need try again and help them achieve their goals, how they do it is your choice, and you see the reactions to your actions.

What exactly is the context that a plot, and a narrative, to a game isn't that important, but a character is?

That is similar to saying food is not necessary, but eating is needed to survive.

Normally this would be an argumentative fallacy, but in this case, it's not. A character, any character worth a single grain of salt of mention, has a world in which to interact with. Any game, any game ever, has a world constructed because there has to be interaction on some level, and that in turn creates "narrative" in a video game.

It doesn't even have to be deep! It can be Pacman level of deep, to Demon's Souls, Planescape Torment, Fallout New Vegas, heck even Last of Us or Uncharted, because Drake isn't walking around in the physical manifestation of nothing doing nothing and saying nothing.

Having strong characters creates a strong story, and therefore a strong narrative.

I am more confused than anything by this article because of the express reason that saying a plot isn't important but characters are is fairly silly.

Especially considering it's coming from Microsoft, the people who own the Halo franchise which has 6, not 1, 2 or 3 books, 6 books for the players that want to know more about the Halo universe outside the context of Master Chief blowing aliens up, which although players may be able to summarize the otherwise simple story of Halo 1 quite easily, has been expanded upon because of the want and desire by the niche markets.

And for my closing words, saying we want "good" lore and storytelling yesterday is a little insulting to be perfectly honest with you because we have been promised this for more than a year now, two years going, the Journal of Justice was removed and the worries that spring up are either not answered or expounded upon by mystery upon mystery.

If you can address any of this, any of this at all, I would actually love to discuss with a Red, have some back and forth, talk it out, interact because this is what being a part of a community is about.

Thank you.


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IMTOOJUICY

Senior Member

03-18-2014

Does anyone have a link to a video of Abernathy's GDC speech? The IGN article says the speech was 20+ minutes long, and I would like to hear it in its entirety before commenting. News media loves to take things out of context for the sake of sensationalism.