Making AD Kassadin possible

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TwistWrist

Senior Member

07-02-2011

So I was driving one day and was thinking about LoL (probably a sign that I play it too much). Specifically, about Kassadin's passive. Really, only half of the passive is used. I mean, has anyone taken 1500 damage as Kassadin and -decided to riftwalk onto Annie and start stabbing her in the face? Most people would get out of there before Annie dropped Tibbers on them. As for Kassadin being anti-mage, that window always seems pretty brief to me. After like level 8, Kassadin becomes more like anti-low hp which really has very little to do with his passive.

The recent W change made Kassadin more streamlined toward AP but that is kind of boring isn't it? Only being able to build a champion in one general direction.

So I had an idea that would involve changing Kassadin's passive, w, and ultimate (slightly) that would make AD Kassadin possible while not buffing AP Kassadin. Additionally, it would still keep Kassadin in the same feel as he is now...weak early farming, riftwalk dependent, and extremely item-reliant.

Passive
Void Stone-
Kassadin takes 10% reduced magic damage and transforms every 10 damage reduced into a Netherrack stack (name is arbitrary). For every .5 sec that Kassadin doesn't take magic damage, he loses a stack. Max stack size is 20. At 18+ stacks, Kassadin is immune to CC's.

W skill
Nether Blade-
(Passive): Kassadin's melee attacks restore mana. This effect returns triple the mana against champions.
(Active): Kassadin's base damage is increased by 1/2/3/4/5% per Netherrack stack 5 seconds and gains 7/15/25/38/50 armor penetration.

Ultimate
Riftwalk-
(Active): Kassadin teleports to a nearby location, dealing magic damage to surrounding enemy units. Each subsequent Riftwalk in the next 7 seconds costs 100 additional mana and deals additional damage. The cost and damage can stack up to 10 times. Each cast generates 5/6/7 Netherrack stacks.

Why would you remove the attack speed bonus from his passive?

Because keeping attack speed bonus and having a damage bonus would make the damage output exponential when gaining stacks. Would make him either godlike with full stacks or completely ignore-able without or with few stacks. Plus, how often do you get to trade hits with someone as Kassadin anyway? He has a slower base move speed than Master Yi, Lee Sin, and Tryndamere. Kassadin shouldn't be building move speed anyway when Riftwalk is so central to his play style.


[b]Why would you give Kassadin CC immunity? That should be Olaf's thing/CC resistence is what makes Irelia so strong.[b]

Otherwise, Kassadin wouldn't be able to be anti-mage at all. He'd just be damaged then CC'd and then lose all his stacks. Plus, he wouldn't really take Olaf's role since Kassadin would have to take a lot of damage to even get that immunity.


[b]Would this not affect AP Kassadin?[b]

It shouldn't. AP Kassadin builds don't really use Netherblade for anything other than slight mana regain and (more importantly) charging up Force Pulse. To really benefit from the passive and Netherblade, a Kassadin would have to build AD, survivability, and level Netherblade early. Basically, everything that AP Kassadin doesn't do at the moment.


Why change Riftwalk to generate Netherrack stacks?

So you can at least do something when the enemy isn't hitting you with magic damage. Otherwise, AD Kassadin would just be there to silence and slow unless he gets hit by magic damage. 2.6 second silence doesn't exactly shutdown the enemy AP carry when the CD is much longer than 2.6 seconds.


So Kassadin would have to take 1800 damage to get a full 20 stack?

I'm actually show not sure how his passive works in the calculation. I would prefer if it was pre-MR reduction (with some adjustment to the numbers of course) but that is far beyond my understand of how LoL mechanics work. Hell, I'm still not sure how Kassadin's current passive does the attack speed increase.


Anyway, this was just an idea I had festering in my head because I'm enjoying Kassadin a lot at the moment. Any comments? Would any Kassadin player like to see any of this to happen?


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Force of Nurture

Senior Member

07-02-2011

It would have to be something to do with W, yes. This sounds a bit overly complicated though tbh, even just reducing the CD on W and increasing the duration would make ad kass massively more viable.

The thing about AD kass is, if he builds survivability he has no real damage. If he builds damage he has no real survivability. You can't buff his survivability via base stats as that'll also be a buff to AP kass, which would probably make him OP, but you can make W a force to be reckoned with so that you can have decent damage while building survivability, which is what the recent W change was probably aiming to do in the first place.


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Unicorn Giggles1

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Senior Member

07-02-2011

I like the new W. Gives him another Viable build route (AS/AP), whereas if you built AD Kassadin, people will think you're trolling and instantly report


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PureLantic

Senior Member

07-02-2011

Why ? why do you want to play a clearly ap based hero ad ?????

I suppose we should change Olaf's E to scale off ap and his W scale off of mana as well


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Sir Longfellow

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Senior Member

07-02-2011

Just give him the old W back. AD Kassadin wasn't bad before beyond gold dependency which is a problem with AP Kass too. These ideas aren't bad, but they'd be better on a new champion.

@Unicorn: AS/AP on Kassadin is terrible, the new W scales too poorly and Kassadin is too fragile to stack in melee range. Malady, one of the best AS/AP items isn't even good on him because it's more plausible to drop your burst before you get in melee range. You'd be better off using Magewick.

@PureLantic: Lots of AD champions scale on AP (namely Tristana). Kassadin's moves have high base damage and he has high base AD, had a huge AD steroid, an instant and spammable dash, and really silence/slow supports a good beating since they can't run or use abilities. Not to mention whacking at people gives (or gave is a better tense) him more mana for Riftwalk.


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TwistWrist

Senior Member

07-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by PureLantic View Post
Why ? why do you want to play a clearly ap based hero ad ?????

I suppose we should change Olaf's E to scale off ap and his W scale off of mana as well
I don't see why he has to be AP based.

Currently, he definitely needs to be AP based just from how he is built at the moment. But his old W and half of his passive never quite fit. In many ways, it seems like he might have originally been designed with the idea that AD anti-mage was possible. Steroid from taking magic damage and a W that gave armor penetration. Additionally, both of his "nukes" have anti-mage utility, 2.6 sec silence to stop the mage from flashing/ghosting/CC'ing and an AoE slow for runners.

Ultimately, I'm not saying this has to happen but it was something fun to think about. Most people say AD Sivir and AD Ezreal are definitely the way to go but they still have AP scaling on their abilities.

My idea would not weaken or buff AP Kassadin at all. Why not have more diversity? Dream a little.

@Sir Longfellow

My main concern with these being on another champion is that the silence and slow is what really would make it anti-mage in my opinion. And those are already on Kassadin so it seems kind of roundabout.


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kavinh the third

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Senior Member

07-02-2011

rather then ad since they took out his armor pen for damage it might work better with just attack speed and crit items or attack and ap.


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Diamond Demon

Senior Member

07-02-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicorn Giggles1 View Post
I like the new W. Gives him another Viable build route (AS/AP), whereas if you built AD Kassadin, people will think you're trolling and instantly report
Its terrible cause i main AD kass, and i win most of my matches (honestly) but people ALWAYS give me a hard time at the start of the match, but then are ok with me at the end.
its actually kind of annoying. i just use silence as my defense and force an auto attack fight (and slight damage) tele for running and blade for some extra dmg.
its not that bad.

i just wish his base attack speed was a tad higher.