Singed late game survivability is absurd

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Giltia Zero

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Senior Member

06-29-2011

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Originally Posted by Louie Kaboom View Post
I can't touch the SOB with AD or AP chars I play. He just bull rushes my team and we're screwed. Had Singed on my team do the same thing and carry us.
You're not getting screwed by Singed. You're getting screwed by the team he throws you into. A melee ranged throw, that he has to RUN AT YOU to use.

Slows and kiting is important. Learn to use your CC effectively.

Singed is particularly sturdy during his ultimate, but his damage is more or less irrelevant so long as you're not building completely glass cannon and don't run through his poison trail. Funny story, you don't actually HAVE to kill Singed. Kill the rest of his team and then push. He can't actually stop you from taking a turret, and if he gets cocky after his ult wears off? Free kill.


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GoldDraco

Senior Member

06-29-2011

The second you said only singed and morde I felt trolled. Singed is actually rather low defensively as a tank. He makes up for it by having good damage output and displacement cc at all phases of the game. Having said that, he is a tank. He is meant to soak damage. But seriously, NO ONE can compare to alistar, shen, or rammus in terms of late game durability.

And amumu destroys singed in terms of damage and CC. Singed is not the best tank by any means, he is decent nonetheless.


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ASYLUM101

Senior Member

06-29-2011

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Ya but he doesn't split push like a *****.
Singed can't split push... he can barely push at all now that his ulty is tank-mode instead of dive-mode.

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isn't it the same with every tank like i mean try hunting down a rammus late game 1 vs 1 u'll never kill him even with cc.
Like I said on page 1, every tank is unkillable with a full build. Not unkillable per se, but really hard to kill. Singed tank ends out with 5000 HP, base 150+ armor and MR without ulty (with it's 230+). On the other hand, a fed rammus ends out with 200+ base armor/mr, with defense ball it's around 400+ and over 3k-4k hp. Both are ridiculously hard to bring down, and both can probably kill most unfed carries easy. Not because they out damage them (though fed, they probably can) but because they can out survive them.

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super fed Rammus and Shen aren't nearly as disruptive as Singed is. Fling is a huge huge threat, and there is no strategy available to counter it -- if you CC him, you've wasted your cooldown on a tank and done no damage, but if you don't CC him, he'll Fling someone and they WILL die. his poison does WAY too much damage, and his Adhesive is too strong a snare, it might as well be a 5 second AoE root.

Singed needs his ult nerfed into the ****ing ground, his poison damage scaling halved and his Fling / Adhesive cooldowns doubled.

end of discussion.
Singed is a threat because he can fling you? That's his only disruptor, and it's disabled by banshees veil, and it's a melee skill. Slows mean anything? CC? Focus fire? I mean, don't focus him in a team fight but if he's rushing at you? Hell yea, kill him. Even if he has a team behind him because most teams can CC him and focus him down so he retreats.

Lets compare singed to rammus -

Rammus can powerball linto your team pretty easily at ~600+ MS. Singed can run at 450 with a FoN and swift boots. When rammus hits your team (not too hard, powerball in the river can't be stopped by minions) he disables any nearby guys and can then taunt one of them, and bring it into your team for an easy kill. Singed? All the while, he's getting focused and has to get WAY closer for his fling (range is same as his melee, 150, while Rammus' taunt? 325 or so.) With the massive speed advantage, range advantage, and double disable advantage, I'd say rammus is much better at disrupting a team.


Singed can land some good glue spots, but with mercs or another tenacity item, it's really not much of a slow. Besides, it's not a snare, you can flash out of it. Cait, Kass, Trist, w/e, most can escape the glue, and it's not the end of the world if he lands it. Most of the time, if you're with your team, you can still win a team fight with his glue beneath you.


His poison is OP?

If he builds pure AP, maybe. If he builds tank, likely he'll max it at 120ish damage per second. Magic damage mind you, not true damage. So if you get 1 negatron cloak, you've just reduced that to 60 damage (not including base resists) per second. oooo, that's painful! But even so, if he builds AP, freaking focus him. AP singed players are idiots, singed isn't meant to be pure AP, he can't initiate without being tanky, and his ult doesn't provide enough durability for that.








And for all the Singed players who think Archangel's is good on him - die.

1) his q does not proc the tear nor the archs. you won't get crazy stacks, stfu.

2) no, it really doesn't, gtfo.

3) it gives MANA. at most, singed can get 250 HP from a fully stacked archs, which costs how much? 3k? hmm.... 250 HP from that, while a spirit visage gives 250 HP also for 1500... don't stack mana. he doesn't need it. RoA, Banshee's, and Frozen heart are the only mana items I'd suggest to get for Singed, and thats pushing it. RoA grants something like 500 HP and another 500 MP, that's actually granting 650 HP base, then another 300 HP after it gets stacked. That's almost a warmogs right there. THAT'S why singed players get it, not because it's a crazy AP item to make the chemist into a tanky dps monster (he's not tanky dps, stfu).

Singed is meant to be indestructible because he must dive into a 1v5 fight in order to initiate as a tank. Think - how useless would alistar be as an initiator if he had no invulnerability ult? Rammus if he had no powerball/defensive curl? Singed does negligible damage as a tank. At most, you can expect 600 burst from a heavy ap singed's fling, and then the 120 poison per tick (not including mr)


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Medullaris

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Senior Member

06-30-2011

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Originally Posted by Carnack View Post
At last check Singed's Q does not help crank up Tear OR AA.
Singed's Q isn't an ability, it's a toggle. No toggle works with Tear or AA. That would just be broken.


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manwhat

Senior Member

06-30-2011

People seriously think Singed is OP?

You know who counters Singed extremely easily? Who makes his life hell whenever he tries to get somewhere? Ashe. Frost Arrows, Volley, he can't get to where he wants to be. If you throw a slow at him while he runs at you (even Kayle can do this!) then he's useless.

Unless you were a total dumbass and died to him in laning (hahaha you're bad) Singed is most effective from 17 to 35 minutes, because that's when he has Rod of Ages/Rylai's (one of the two) and Mercury Treads. As a side note, Swiftness Boots are pointless on Singed because Mercury Treads are way more useful. Anyway, in that time Singed can split push, dive a tower sometimes, fling you, even gank as long as the laner is on the ball. In late game, he's ignorable.

This is the most important thing about Singed: in a teamfight, Singed is ignorable. Once he pops Fling and his slow the most he can do is run around poisoning you, which usually won't kill you. Singed usually hates teamfights. When it looks like a big fight is gonna start mid, what should Singed do?

He sidepushes. He pushes up bot or top lane and either takes the tower, or forces people to come after him, which relieves pressure on mid.

Why? Because in a teamfight, Singed is ignorable, and there's little point to attacking him unless he's the last one alive.


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seanzies

Senior Member

06-30-2011

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Originally Posted by Tserris View Post
Firstly, Singed is in no way a tank. He lacks any form of initiation ability and his only form of crowd control simply chucks a champion slightly behind him but in no way disables the target.

He is however a perfect example of a Tanky dps, he survives very long and deals noteworthy damage during that period of time. Difficult to kill with moderate damage but lacks initiation skills and CC = tanky dps.

That said, being in the category of a tanky dps I do agree he has more survive-ability than he ought to. However he also sports the lowest immediate damage capabilities of all the tanky dps champions -he has the highest long term damage capability (should noobs chase him).

Generally I see Singed's buy a RoA first... This should be the first indicator that he is not a tank -you don't see Rammus buying a RoA simply because his powerball and ult have AP ratios.

Also, downvoting doesn't make me wrong -just ask a Riot employee. Or just watch his spotlight, clearly states that he's a tanky dps.

implying you need a taunt or heavy cc to pressure squishies and cause a lot of problems for the enemy team, he plays exactly as he should, his team can focus easily on the front lines of the enemy team while singed threatens softer dps targets in the back, if he was easily killable people would stand their ground and disintegrate him before you got any use out of him.

there are so many heros that can fit this description, as long as there is some coordination with the team, forcing a Kog'maw / Ashe / Vayne to seek some form of cover or protection instead of being in a comfortable safe spot where they can pick off anyone they want.

most of the times where youve seen singed walk through teams its because his laning phase was one-sided, even some of the weaker rdps can harass him heavily enough to reduce the amount of gold he takes in early on.

the main problem with singed in most cases is most likely due to the way the reacts to singed, either ignoring him or being afraid of him, there are so many heros who can counter sing's play style very easily.

a single disable while a fiddlesticks charges up his ult would discourage any followup aggression on whoever he flips unless they are caught somewhere they shouldnt "like in a bush without wards", not to mention that the enemy team could have more effective "divers" like a properly built renekton or a jarvan can easily do twice the upfront damage singed can, but with a superior skill set up for killing power and closing the gap.

when a singed is so tanky that he can literally survive inside the center of your entire team he wont have the shattering damage he uses to throw carries into the pit of a volcano filled with glue. with that in mind just try repositioning in front of him to cover the tossed carry and move offensively against his team, because he lacks any real way to chase your carry and still disable your team without leaving his vulnerable because he cant mass cc like galio/malphite/rammus/blitz.

sometimes ignoring him is what kills him the most because he cant really hit that hard without items that offer no protection.


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CaptainAwesome8

Member

07-03-2011

Its funny cause when I play singed I end up going from tanky Ap to Tanky ap carry. The first rule is never chase singed, and most people obey that rule, but make them think they can kill you and catch you and you have a kill/triple kill on your hands, just have 25% HP or under, start to get too close to them, run with poison, they chase, slow down for them, run in circles to spread your poison everywhere and toss them to kill them. In the end people are so fixed on trying to end you they forget they are not supposed to chase you ;P