Thornmail vs Sunfire cape

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Jman69

Senior Member

04-09-2010

Which item is better against a physical dps heavy team?


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Churchy

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Friend of Urf

04-09-2010

Thornmail if you aren't in desperate need of health.


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

04-09-2010

Thornmail is usually a high HP hero item. You need a high amount of HP/damage absorbing heroes to make good use of it's passive. Otherwise it's just a waste of money. It'd be good on characters like Nasus, Shen, Alistar, Blitzcrank, etc. Sunfires are generally for characters who could use the HP and also make a nice effect from its passive. Examples would be Singed and Rammus who can keep its effect on enemies for a long time.


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DarkenDragon

Senior Member

04-09-2010

this is simple, the way I look at it is if the enemy hits with fast and hard physical attacks, then thorn mail otherwise i'd get sunfire caps

the reason for this, thornmail scales against their attack damage, the harder and faster they attack, (chances are your on a champion with a lot of health) the harder and faster they kill themselfs.

sunfire capes are static damage meaning regardless of how hard the enemy hits you, they'll take the same amount of damage, if the team has a lot of casters, i'd get this instead cuz their magic spells do not get affected by the thornmail's ability nor its high armor. and if im gonna make sure I stick close to the enemy then sunfire capes will be a great addition since it does give a hefty amount of health and armor as well.

not to mention the 5% buff to thorn mail just means it'll rape even harder now and dont forget, the damage return is calculated before armor, so they take the full damage return while you take only take a fraction of the damage, so if they are a fast hitting physical attacker, as long as you got more health than them, your almost garentee to watch them kill themselfs


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PackMan97

Senior Member

04-09-2010

I like Thornmail on Mordekaiser more than Sunfire, though both are great. Thornmail if you are getting focus fired. The health issue isn't that big since Mord has his shield giving him more effective life than you'd think. Even though I stack armor with him, being a target that won't die and getting a pet early fight is key to making Morde appear a huge threat so folks will attack you.

Basically the rule of thumb is correct.
High hitpoints, low armor and getting focused -> THORNMAIL
High armor, often ignored -> SUNFIRE

The reason low armor + thornmail rocks is it reflects damage done AFTER mitigation, they could swing at you for 300 pts, but if you have 66% mitigation, it will only do 100pts, reflecting back 25pts. But if they are hitting for the full 300, it's reflecting back 75 or so. Very nice If you've got 5k health, and they've got 1.5k health...well toss in a little damage from your spells and attacks and it's GG to that phys carry.


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Linden Ryuujin

Senior Member

04-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by PackMan97 View Post
The reason low armor + thornmail rocks is it reflects damage done AFTER mitigation, they could swing at you for 300 pts, but if you have 66% mitigation, it will only do 100pts, reflecting back 25pts. But if they are hitting for the full 300, it's reflecting back 75 or so. Very nice If you've got 5k health, and they've got 1.5k health...well toss in a little damage from your spells and attacks and it's GG to that phys carry.
This is wrong, unless there was a nerf I missed thornmail reflects BEFORE mitigation (including dodge!)


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avatarofrandom

Senior Member

04-09-2010

It's definitely before armor. I've seen where I deal back more damage than I take. I also believe that it works with haunting guise as well as a minor heal. I can't be certain on that though.


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Azing

Senior Member

04-09-2010

Depends on your hero. Really though a smart team won't be targetting the tank wearing the thornmail so in that case Sunfire Cape will be better. Thorn is an amazing item however on taunt heroes like Shen and Ramus to get those dps to attack you with it on over a squishy.


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unentschieden

Senior Member

04-09-2010

Even if it does the amount would be too minor to get the combination for that reason. YouŽd be better off combining it with Sunfire but that also isnŽt great.


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DarkenDragon

Senior Member

04-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by unentschieden View Post
Even if it does the amount would be too minor to get the combination for that reason. YouŽd be better off combining it with Sunfire but that also isnŽt great.
im sorry but ........... wha? please reference things your talking about, what does what amount, and what combination are you talking about,


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