Tiamat: Why it sucks and how it can be improved

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Warskull

Adjudicator

09-27-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage View Post
What does this have to do with why the item is terrible? Tiamat has no purpose. It's built out of a bunch of very low level items into an early game farming item...that costs over 2000 gold. You can't afford to buy it in the early game when the health and mana regen are still relevant. It's burdened with a bunch of obsolete stats and a terrible recipe in the mid-game.

You need to figure out what you want the item to do. If you want it to be a farming and pushing item, it needs its cost reduced significantly. If you want it to be a source of AoE damage for big 5v5 fights later, it needs to give stats that are relevant for those fights. Otherwise, it will only ever be bought if it's buffed so much that it starts filling one of those roles despite being a schizophrenic item.
This is absolutely correct, Tiamat flat out needs reworked. Otherwise it would need to be buffed to the point where you are paying only for damage and the regen is free.

I don't want regen on Tiamat, if I needed the regen I already bought a philosophers stone for early game.


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Sir Prize

Senior Member

09-28-2009

I like Tiamat

It has the advantage of having two different regen components you can buy with your starter gold, as opposed to just getting regen in one area. I think that if this is supposed to be part of its strength though, then the final cost should probably go down a little bit.

I think a complete rework is totally unnecessary then since as recipes go it helps you a lot the entire time, which can't be said for all recipes or things you might try to build.


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Karbon

Member

09-30-2009

Tiamat

+42 Attack Damage +15 Health Regen per 5 sec +4 Mana Regen per 5 sec Passive: Your attacks Splash, dealing Physical Damage in a small area around the target.


Just a few questions that I didn't see answered on the tool tip.

Is 100% of the damage splashed and if not whats the %? And does this splash critical strike damage as well?


This is clearly geared after Battlefury from Dota which splashed 35% damage and had the damage and mana/hp regen components. The power came from stacking these on heroes that had life steal and/or bonus damage or with heroes that already splash damage. You could effectively do more damage to your off-target than your primary and with the damage and hp/mana regen stacking it made this effectively a pushing item that kept you in your lane.


I'm going try this again on my builds and test this a bit more before I jump on the revamp train because stat wise this seems like a solid mid-tier item.


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Shizz

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Senior Member

09-30-2009

Has anyone found this item good on anyone yet?

I loved Battlefury in DotA, but this item for the price/stats, doesn't seem worth it on any of the champs I've played.


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Natural20

Member

09-30-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizz View Post
Has anyone found this item good on anyone yet?

I loved Battlefury in DotA, but this item for the price/stats, doesn't seem worth it on any of the champs I've played.
I had a pretty good run with the pirate with this item. He doesn't have much else for farming, and AOE parley is good fun.


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Shizz

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Senior Member

09-30-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural20 View Post
I had a pretty good run with the pirate with this item. He doesn't have much else for farming, and AOE parley is good fun.
Makes sense. I might give that a shot sometime.

I appreciate your reply, because you're the first person to ever reply to this question for me. I've asked this more than once.


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Sir Prize

Senior Member

09-30-2009

Part of Tiamat's lack of usefullness (as compared to battlefury in DotA) is that most heroes don't need it to very quickly take out a group of troops.

Really the way troops work in this game is very different in all sorts of subtle ways and I'm not sure that the designers, despite having made it that way of course, have really considered all the implications that has. Tiamat is just one area where this comes into play.


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Bloodba7h

Senior Member

10-02-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Dragon View Post
Part of Tiamat's lack of usefullness (as compared to battlefury in DotA) is that most heroes don't need it to very quickly take out a group of troops.

Really the way troops work in this game is very different in all sorts of subtle ways and I'm not sure that the designers, despite having made it that way of course, have really considered all the implications that has. Tiamat is just one area where this comes into play.
Good post.

I agree that heroes can currently take out minions too quickly for Tiamat to matter (at that price-point, anyways). I think that you have to increase the damage it does, take out the health/mana regen to lower cost, give it better modifiers (armor? health? crit?), or remove the item completely. Sunfire Cape is a much better farming item, in my opinion (lol).

Another issue is that it needs some sort of graphical feedback to let you know how many enemies are being affected by it when you strike. Some sort of little shockwave or lightning pulse would suffice.

Cheers!


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Ricky Vicious

Member

10-02-2009

I usually get Tiamat on my Warwick after Bloodthirster and wit's end if the team isnt super tank-heavy (in which case I get Bloodrazor)
The splash with the lifesteal adds more suvivability, but I only get it when I'm super famred/looking for something to fill my last couple item slots


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Kabelis

Senior Member

10-02-2009

As a lot of people already mentioned, creeps in LoL are pretty weak in general and you can face them head on with most heroes even during mid game..At that point your regular 150 damage attacks with above 1 attack speed and any form if lifesteal is usually enough to take care of creep wave in seconds anyway..
Tiamat adds very little effective damage..

Basically what it comes down to is that Tiamat cannot be acquired fast enough.If pickaxe was removed from the recipe i.e., it might actually be an ok item..