Attention all Carries:

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CodeOrange

Senior Member

04-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperness View Post
Infinity Edge > Black Cleaver


I know black cleaver has a much lower cost for almost the same damage, but the extra money you're throwing out is not just on 5 damage. Don't forget +20% crit chance. The combine cost is also one of the cheapest for one of the BEST unique passives in the game.

If you're rushing a high tier carry item. Hold onto your BF sword and save up for IE. Do not be tempted with black cleaver. Same goes for bloodthirster, which straight up doesn't even make sense (unless your Sivir.)

Let me make it more clear who this applies to:
Ashe
Tryndamere
Shaco
Twitch
Tristana
Gangplank
Corki
Twisted Fate
Teemo

Remember I'm not saying IE is supposed to be the first item you buy. What I'm saying is that when choosing your first high tier attack item, Infinity Edge is better than black cleaver and bloodthirster for the above characters.
I think tiamat is better. I mean it give you hp regen, mana regen, damage and a powerful splash buff to your normal attacks. I mean when i was playing ryze with tiamat, i killed the whole team with just 5 attacks.


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blackjackz

Senior Member

04-07-2010

do your own math, go league craft. Do your excel file.

BC+ Lastwhisper > IE + LastWhisper.

On target with less than 80 armour, IE is better, with full armour pen rune that can be extend to around 90+ armour, after that, BC WINS unless someone reach over 400 armour, then IE > BC.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

04-07-2010

There's no reason to get both cleaver and last whisper. Cleaver and flat penetration or a starks is better >.>


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Swiftstar88

Senior Member

04-07-2010

I'd take Black Cleaver over Infinity Edge only on Sivir. Last I checked, it affect towers as well, allowing my creeps to hit said towers harder.

If I'm wrong, then eh, it happens.


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

04-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackjackz View Post
WRONG

do your own math, go league craft. Do your excel file.

BC+ Lastwhisper > IE + LastWhisper.

On target with less than 80 armour, IE is better, with full armour pen rune that can be extend to around 100 armour, after that, BC WINS unless someone reach over 400 armour, then IE > BC.
First of all I had to read this like 10 times to understand what you were saying. Proper grammar helps.

2. Don't count on enemies nicely sitting there letting you debuff them with BC. Unfortunately the other team is trying to win too.

3. I want to see your "math."


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

04-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiftstar88 View Post
I'd take Black Cleaver over Infinity Edge only on Sivir. Last I checked, it affect towers as well, allowing my creeps to hit said towers harder.

If I'm wrong, then eh, it happens.
Yeah notice how Sivir wasn't included in that list. =]


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blackjackz

Senior Member

04-07-2010

Without last whisper, BC > IE until target reach over 180 armor, after that they are equally par until target reach 300 armor.


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

04-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackjackz View Post
Without last whisper, BC > IE until target reach over 180 armor, after that they are equally par until target reach 300 armor.
Dude what are you talking about? Seriously how did you arrive at this conclusion? BC applies an armor debuff on hit, affecting your NEXT attack(S) [sheesh, sorry technicality]. Besides that, 20% extra crit chance with a 250% crit damage is so much better than -12 armor a hit.


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blackjackz

Senior Member

04-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperness View Post

2. Don't count on enemies nicely sitting there letting you debuff them with BC. Unfortunately the other team is trying to win too.

3. I want to see your "math."

2 That goes the same with Crit Dmg, Enemy wont sit there until you crit.

3
a) Avg Damage : (Damage*((CritDmg-100)/100)*Crit Chance/100+Damage)
b) Armour Reduction : (1/(targetarmour/100+1)

I took this out from my excel, if you are not getting the same info tell me coz something might be missing.


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Swiftstar88

Senior Member

04-07-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperness View Post
Dude what are you talking about? Seriously how did you arrive at this conclusion? BC applies an armor debuff on hit, affecting your NEXT attack. Besides that, 20% extra crit chance with a 250% crit damage is so much better than -12 armor a hit.
Taken from the website:

+75 Attack Damage Passive: Physical attacks reduce your target's Armor by 12 for 5 seconds, (maximum 5 stacks).



It does not only affect your next hit; in fact, it lasts for 5 seconds, each stack anyways. Which can add up after a while.

I still agree IE > BC usually, but at least understand the math behind it.