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better mage for team Fiddlesticks or Karthus?

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The Promise

Member

04-06-2010

Fiddle's Ult can literally win you the game in late-game. I have a friend who plays Fiddle, and true, mid game he can;t do a whole lot because his Crow damage has tapered off, and his Ult is not at its full potential, but once you hit late game one well placed Crowstorm can win you a team fight and you then proceed to kill their Nexus during the wipe.

Karthus has good AE, but because it's not a "Gotcha!" style AE like Crowstorm it is not as powerful. In addition, Karthus's AE doesn't wreck a whole team in 3 seconds like Fiddle. His aura does pretty decent damage, but he needs to spam Lay Waste as well, and for both of those spells to do as much damage to a whole team as Crowstorm does in its 3 seconds, Karthus needs 6-8 at least.


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RockLee Tipsy

Senior Member

04-06-2010

All the people saying fiddle can solo win games with crowstorm are idiots.

Fiddle is great. and has the games strongest ultimate. However he is very easily anticipated and taken out.

It is almost childishly easy to counter fiddle in most games.

and if you are playing fiddle your fate is in the hands of your teammates. If tanks dont initiate right or people dont cc targets.. you will be burned down in a heartbeat..

fiddle is strong and most defiantly a game breaker. but he is only a game breaker when played well with a team that is played well.

All this "fiddle solo wins games" talk is ******ed. every good fiddle you ever see has a whole team that knows exactly how to support him.

Just imagine your 5 man team being the green bay packers. And fiddle is Arron Rodgers. without that Offensive line and some key blocks.. Rodgers is a goner. However you give him time and leave him alone... and he will wipe the floor with your ass.


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newsca

Recruiter

04-06-2010

Both are great mages (champions). Karthus has a great ult, and so does Fiddle. Both are very good when fed, so i have no idea. They are both good for the team.


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Saberin

Senior Member

04-06-2010

I agree with what a few other people said, Karthus is better for solo-queue, Fiddlesticks is better for group-queues.

With the best fear in the game, a silence that refreshes itself and his ultimate, he's a beast. But without a good group, the enemy will just end up stunning Fiddle and focusing him to death. A good initiator will have all of their spells on cooldown, and a good team will give you the opening to jump in.

Even with a bad team, Karthus can do damage. Your team fail to kill someone? Ult. Your team fails to keep you alive? Innate. He can chase well on his own and push towers pretty well once he has a sheen. He won't win a game alone but he'll need less teammates with him than Fiddlesticks to do well.


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Gornul

Member

04-06-2010

Maybe i'm just that good with Fiddle but I find even when my team is absolutely failing i'm still able to end up with a 2-1 or 3-1 ratio of kills/deaths.

The only reason he needs other heros is because he cant do a **** thing to towers or other buildings.

Actually now that I think about it thats probably why I have something like 400 kills and 190 deaths with Fiddle but i'm only like 2-3 wins ahead of loses with him..where as with Rammus I have about even kills and deaths, but a much much better win percentage.


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DeathKontrol

Member

04-06-2010

Karthus or Fiddle is a big question, so i want to give you a big response. feel free to not read it

The biggest difference between karthus and fiddle is, as you can see, fiddle has all targeting spells and karthus has non-targeting spells (exception is the ultimates, of course, but for the lay spells its true). both have a disable, although fiddles is single-targeting and karthuses is multi. karthus has a massive slow and a mage-resist-reducer that allows him to bomb damage, while fiddle has basically a stun that lets them walk in circles for 3 seconds. personally, i would rather have karthuses (yes i know its Karthus' but F the grammar i call it "karthuses&quot. both have, obviously, 2 damage spells, but i would choose karthus over fiddle any day because i like his damage spells more. first off, from the surface, you can see that karthus is more centered on lay waste and landing them with defile as more of support, while fiddle uses both his massive silence and his heal equally. but the thing about karthus is, LAY WASTE IS NON-TARGETING. therefore, it is desinged to deal MORE damage then, say, drain, if you can land it every single time. the point is it deals equal damage because you DONT land it every single time. so if a target is standing absolutely still, karthus gets a bigger overall damage output than fiddle. even if we pretend that there are two targets for fiddle to bounce his crow off of, and karthus can defile and lay waste them both equally, karthus will pull off more damage in the end.

now the thing to consider with karthus is that yes, lay waste is a "skill shot", but think about this: your 1v1 against someone, say, master yi. every single time you drop a lay waste and it explodes, master yi will be standing SOMEWHERE. your goal is to make that lay waste HIT WHERE HE IS STANDING. this can make laning a little frustrating if master yi, with 330 move speed, knows how to dodge your attacks. however, when master yi decides to highland in, hes not worrying about dodging anymore. he will stand right up next to you and attack! allowing you to drop rounds and rounds of lay waste on him! your goal now is to separate him from minions so that each attack can deal DOUBLE DAMAGE. and karthus with lay waste lvl 5 deals 120 BASE DAMAGE, DOUBLED, PLUS ABILITY POWER RATIO, EVERY SECOND. added to your defile damage, it comes out to be alot.

now think about this situation, its a massive team fight 4 v 5 that just initiated mid and your in the bushes. whats fiddle going to do? thats a no-brainer, hes going to ult in, fear the player thats farthest advanced (probably dr. mundo or somebody), drop a dark wind and start draining them. EVEN THOUGH crowstorm has a huge area of effect, hes only able to disable one person and begin draining them. everybody else is going to leave his circle immediately. and of course, chances are the moment you fear and drain dr mundo, ashe is going to instantly fire her arrow in at him and ryze will snare and spellblast him because they all want the kill. the end result is you chased off 4 of them and got an assist on dr mundo. now what do you do with karthus? well, karthus has a huge circle-of-death move too! karthus jumps in and begins to defile, instantly making everybody notice you and, if your fed, begin to run away. karthus doesnt need to stand still to begin dealing damage as he drops a lay waste once ever 0.91 seconds (or however much CDR you have anyways). THEN, more important than the fact your dealing lots of damage right now anyways, he can place a wall blocking ALL 5 ENEMIES FROM THEIR TOWER. your team instantly rushes in to destroy the slowed and vulnerable opposing team. BUT YOU DIDNT USE YOUR ULT YET!!! of course master yi is going to turn the heck around and start using his highland to run out instead of in. by the time he gets through your wall (without the slow, of course) ashe will have already beat him up and likely he took one or two double-damage lay wastes anyways. a nice 550 damage to all enemy champions cleans him up nicely! not only will requiem fill your soulstealer up, you can wipe a team clean and snuff any chances of narrow escapes. and of course, what if they dont turn around and run? what if you eat an ashe arrow and they go straight for you? well, thats where your innate kicks in! 8 more seconds you get to stand there blasting at the stupid ones who have never played karthus before, AND still cast requiem to finish off people running away. a kill after death will grant MORE on your mejais than if you got the kill BEFORE dieing. dont believe me? imagine this: you have 6 stacks, you get 3 kills, THEN you die. 3x2=6, 6+6=12, 12 x (2/3) = 8 stacks left. but if you die first, 6 x (2/3) = 4, + 6 = 10 stacks left! and what does fiddles innate do? oh right it takes off a little bit of mage resist thats right.... karthuses wall actually takes off MUCH more mage resist than fiddles innate when you hit someone with it

in summary, i would go for karthus 100% of the time. his spells are not only better 1v1, but their better team support. hes useful after he dies and hes useful without being next to the enemy too. and karthus is naturally a better farmer too. fiddle can stay in a lane without dieing because he can heal off creeps, but karthus can manasteal from creeps and i dont think i need to explain that he farms more minion kills than fiddle does. he gains mejais quicker, does better damage overall, and is just a better champion.

Karthus all the way.


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n3Kro

Senior Member

04-06-2010

thx for answers I must say that I like debuffer type heroes so I will certainly buy Fiddlesticks today but after little test of Karthus ending with 4 to 1 win defeat ratio I certainly will buy Karthus but next week. One more time thx for help


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GENERAL NUTBAKED

Senior Member

04-07-2010

you're comparing apples to oranges. fiddle is the king of all disablers. he is hands down the best disabler in the game. his dps is his ultimate, the rest of him is just disable disable be as annoying as possible disable.

karthus is the only caster with consistant dps. his q and e are spammable with no mentionable cooldown. however, he is pretty much straight dps with a single slow. his overall dps output will always be far greater than fiddle's, but his utility won't go near fiddle's.

it depends on what you are looking for on your team. if you need alot of straight magic damage, go karthus or annie. if you want moderate magic damage with high disables, go fiddle. fiddle is best played when you don't have a real support on your team, and karthus is best played when you do.

also, karthus's ulti is hard countered by many things, such as soraka, shen, and banshee's veil. fiddlesticks lols at banshees veil as godwind hits it bounces off and hits them again for the silence.


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KMoZaR

Senior Member

04-07-2010

I think the choice is obviously fiddle, though maybe thats because I've seen very few good karthus players. Karthus and Fiddle ulti combined does a rediculous amount of damage though...


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TechYS

Senior Member

04-07-2010

Just something extra for people to think about.

Considering both are mages, let's say both have Lichbane and a decent amount of AP.

Karthas can be a building killer. Spamming Lay Waste and then auto attacking towers = massive damage like once evvery two hits thanks to Lichbane procs. (something like 300-400 dmg per hit)

With the same setup, Fiddle can probably do 100+ dmg (maybe near 200) per hit in auto attacks, but his Lichbane proc will certainly be not as frequent as Karthus (since all his spells except ult needs a target).

In terms of speed of killing buildings late game, Karthus will probably > Fiddle.


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