[Guide] Dorkbrains' Warwick Guide

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dorkbrains

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Senior Member

05-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by congalong View Post
What do you think of full AS runes and arp quints? Is the extra AS from yellows not worth it over dodge?
i have never done a full AS page to be completely honest, but i'd have to imagine that it's absolutely amazing. you should prolly have close to .900 attack speed at the beginning of the game if you did that, however, because of the fact that warwick is melee and he jumps into fights like he does, i think the dodge is worth it. I will say that I mentioned dodge seals to Wazzabi and that he did them for a few games and then returned to an attack speed page

i have no tried wazzabi's page, as he does, 3 armor pen reds, 3 gold/5 quints, and the rest are attack speed, but his build really does sound just as viable as mine, but i'd almost say, all attack speed + arP quints would be amazing, you don't really need the gold/5 as warwick imo.


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TheBubba

Member

05-03-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helicrom View Post
You said my numbers looked agreeable. I am using the same Excel spreadsheet so I will refrain from including the formulas.

ASSUMPTIONS (This is hot off the presses. CHECK MY MATH PLEASE!)
Level 14 WW
5 hits
30 Magic Resist
60 Armor

DAMAGE WITH MADREDS BLOODRAZORS
Total Damage 640.14
DPS 180.52

DAMAGE WITH MADREDS RAZORS AND BLACK CLEAVER
Total Damage 713.43
DPS 144.11

Now lets take a look at this same 5 hits, done after an ultimate (INFINITE DURESS).


DAMAGE WITH MADREDS BLOODRAZORS (REMAINS THE SAME)
Total Damage 640.14
DPS 180.52

DAMAGE WITH MADREDS RAZORS AND BLACK CLEAVER
Total Damage 955
DPS 192.91

Ironically, the difference between the two is really only attack speed. Add a recurve bow and the DPS for Black Cleaver jumps to 201 for 5 normal hits, and 269 after an Ulti.

Madreds bloodrazor is 265 gold cheaper than adding Black Cleaver. Madreds will increase your DPS more than Black Cleaver. Black Cleaver with madreds razors used after an Infinite Duress has a higher DPS than Madreds bloodrazors. I guess it just goes to your style.

I wonder what you would go to after completing bloodrazor that is stronger than adding recurve=>pickaxe=>bloodrazor to a black cleaver....

Two things.

First thing. You keep going back to smite, this is not the point I was trying to make. To further clarify, I don't think smite is bad at all. I am simply trying to find a way around using it so I can get 2 CYA's. ANYWAY. We are playing the same game just at different times, that double kill you get at lvl 4, I am going for at lvl 2. Now once you get that double kill do you simply abandon all the easy minion kills you could get, just to go back to the jungle? I say no, I stay and mop up the XP and then leave once they are respawned. I can further elaborate on how you then want to push turret and get your minions killed off (to deny them the xp gain from built up minions) if you wish.

Second thing.
Please answer these two questions.
1. Are you playing AT (how many? premade?) or normal game?
2. Are there ever games where the 1v2 solo'er feeds?

Helicrom
edit 4/29: Added the Normal Damage Section!
well on the topic of the person in the 2v1 lane feeding i have actually played with dorkbrains in the past and he used to play with a very good nid player Coto who would almost always take the 2v1 lane. never had any problems with him feeding. also on the madreds vs cleaver argument i believe that madreds is far better at killing the buffs and the dragon tho i may be wrong.

nvm dorkbrains already mentioned the nid.


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Helicrom

Member

05-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBubba View Post
well on the topic of the person in the 2v1 lane feeding i have actually played with dorkbrains in the past and he used to play with a very good nid player Coto who would almost always take the 2v1 lane. never had any problems with him feeding. also on the madreds vs cleaver argument i believe that madreds is far better at killing the buffs and the dragon tho i may be wrong.

nvm dorkbrains already mentioned the nid.
Oh it cane be done easily, the point is if you don't AT knowing you have that person, throws a little wrench into things. I am sure a nid needs to only hug for a lil since she can basically run away from anything.

That is a very good argument against BC, if I might twist your words a little. If the target has well below 60 armor to begin with, Madred's is definitely going to win out. If that's the case you're probably going to end up with wits end instead of ArP.

As far as the jungling speed, interesting queston. Based on the fact recurve bow is going to add attack speed to your 15% chance to hit for 500, going Bloodrazor is probably going to move you through faster.


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Grinningsphinx

Senior Member

05-04-2010

HMm..your point about matchmaking is valid.

At high elo, you die as warwick, pretty much all the time in team battles. They simply cant afford to let you run around and mangle people. BUT you disable there biggest DPS for awhile and maybe get a swipe off.

I have to say that lately ive been getting the Ghostblade right after i get a madreds glove. Ghostblade is just soooo good on WW that i dont need the bloodrazor anymore.... I only finish Bloodrazor after i get boots and last whisper.


Ive also tried Randuins Omen to survive, and also Zhonyas.pop it right after the Ult and it really frustrates them enemy baddies lol..


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MeanBean

Senior Member

05-04-2010

Ugh, I disagree with alot in this guide

I did like your early build and skill points. Did not like your view on wits end. Lets say their only mana-less champ is shen, then its safe to go wits end because shen shouldnt die first anyways. Im pretty sure wits end is among the best dps items in the game, considering it adds 42 unmitigated damage per hit.

Also, armor penetration runes will always make you do more damage than attack speed runes. You probably dont understand the math behind armor, but it scales linearly.


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TheBubba

Member

05-04-2010

hm actually I'm not sure about wits end you said unmitigated but I'm pretty sure it gets put against MR, thought it did at least. I used to like it a lot but idk a buddy of mine kinda made a fair point its great early but not so great late. 42 damage at low lvls is good cause its 42/1200(estimated i play sion so may be bit high) but 42/3500 is significantly less but that can be said for every damage item in the game so i kinda wondered bout the logic behind that explenation.

yeah i checked it and it gets reduced it was only doing 26 damage to the ryze bot with just a chalice


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Helicrom

Member

05-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanBean View Post
Ugh, I disagree with alot in this guide

I did like your early build and skill points. Did not like your view on wits end. Lets say their only mana-less champ is shen, then its safe to go wits end because shen shouldnt die first anyways. Im pretty sure wits end is among the best dps items in the game, considering it adds 42 unmitigated damage per hit.

Also, armor penetration runes will always make you do more damage than attack speed runes. You probably dont understand the math behind armor, but it scales linearly.
Agree with TheBubba, pretty sure it goes through MR. Also, X/(100+X) [If this is the correct formula] is not a linear function... Talked to dorkbrains recently, pretty sure he understands the math.

Wow actually, after I read this again and again... You're dissing attack speed, yet boasting an item that proc's a flat amount; ie it loves attack speed.

Plus, you don't want to go ArP happy. The Mana/CD golem only has 24 armor (fact check this please) and dragon 21. So if you want to start with 24 armor pen, that will take you 3 quints and 6 marks. The opportunity cost of which is 20.4% AS.


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Dunkin McCloud

Member

05-05-2010

ok math junkies not to derail but how do you guys feel about divine sword? Its 100 undogable dmg every 4th attack. as well as 55% attack speed.


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TheBubba

Member

05-05-2010

just to clarify the 100 damage is an on hit affect so if they dodge the hit I'm pretty sure they don't get the affect either(may be wrong bout that). its only undodgeable when you activate it. if that's what you meant than yeah but honestly i like it on say udyr but ill only get on WW if I'm against an udyr, jax or sivir with dodge pages or tabi. idk bout the math on it tho it suffers from what razors and wits end suffer from it is reduced from MR so tbh i wouldnt highly suggest any of the three if the enemy has a fair amount of MR


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Dunkin McCloud

Member

05-05-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBubba View Post
just to clarify the 100 damage is an on hit affect so if they dodge the hit I'm pretty sure they don't get the affect either(may be wrong bout that). its only undodgeable when you activate it. if that's what you meant than yeah but honestly i like it on say udyr but ill only get on WW if I'm against an udyr, jax or sivir with dodge pages or tabi. idk bout the math on it tho it suffers from what razors and wits end suffer from it is reduced from MR so tbh i wouldnt highly suggest any of the three if the enemy has a fair amount of MR
What would the alt be for a MR heavy team? i can stack all kinds of dmg with razor, wits and divine but MR kills it all.

My build as terrible as it may be normally runs something like razor > mobility boots > wits > finish the razors > divine > last whisper. which works great some games but not well on MR heavy teams.