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15% MP or 50+ Health Regen?

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Kallen Kouzuki

Senior Member

06-13-2011

I play as Ryze (You know, the tanky mage) and I'm only a level 9. I can only afford one of my ideal masteries, Strength of Spirit (1% of Mana -> Health Regen per 5) or Archaic Knowledge (15% Magic Penetration). With Strength of Spirit I can lane way longer and start out by doubling my health regen, but can barely ever get kills. With Archaic Knowledge I can get much easier kills but have to keep going back for health (I start by buying health pots so don't suggest it lol) plus lose a huge advantage much later on cause Ryze is best built stacking mana so Strength of Spirit is amazing. What should I do...?:

1) Capitalize on my mana and take the health regen.

2) Screw health regen and go for easier kills.

3) Pick a different champ / play the tutorial until I can use both masteries.

If it depends on my build, here's what I'd buy (assuming there was mixed damage and few stuns)

Rod of Ages, Sorcerer's Boots, Banshee's Veil, Frozen Heart, Archangel's Staff (I buy the Tear first and wait forever to upgrade because tbh for someone who scales so badly as Ryze the extra bit of AP and such isn't really worth the 1860 gold it takes to upgrade it), + a situational item, maybe some wards or something.

Sooo, any suggestions?


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Amatzikahni

Senior Member

06-13-2011

You start off with ~500 mana (based on item/runes of course). This yields about one health per second. It would behoove you to open with a Sapphire Crystal and upgrade it to Tear first, then get Sorc and Catalyst followed by Glacial Shroud and upgrading to BV/FH/RoA as you see fit (usually FH last).

In terms of playstyle, Sapphire Crystal + 2 Health Pots should allow you to lane for a good while; you should get your ult and have enough health to do some sick harass until they're forced back and you can mutually accept for items. You don't need the extra health regen nor the extra MR to stay in lane if you're capable of harassing, so 9/0/0 would be optimal for your level.
However, it is understandable that you're still a new player and I always find new players incapable of maximizing harass with 77 different opponents; more likely than not, you will take and dish out damage randomly which means you won't know if you're going to win the regen war or lose it. Therefore, I would recommend going for a regen route and opening with something like a Regrowth Pendant + 1 Health Pot using Q only for enemy champion harass and try to force them out of lane quickly so that you can B and grab a Philosopher's Stone (+boots1 if you can afford it) before continuing your normal build.


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Kallen Kouzuki

Senior Member

06-13-2011

Quote:
Amatzikahni:
You start off with ~500 mana (based on item/runes of course). This yields about one health per second. It would behoove you to open with a Sapphire Crystal and upgrade it to Tear first, then get Sorc and Catalyst followed by Glacial Shroud and upgrading to BV/FH/RoA as you see fit (usually FH last).

In terms of playstyle, Sapphire Crystal + 2 Health Pots should allow you to lane for a good while; you should get your ult and have enough health to do some sick harass until they're forced back and you can mutually accept for items. You don't need the extra health regen nor the extra MR to stay in lane if you're capable of harassing, so 9/0/0 would be optimal for your level.
However, it is understandable that you're still a new player and I always find new players incapable of maximizing harass with 77 different opponents; more likely than not, you will take and dish out damage randomly which means you won't know if you're going to win the regen war or lose it. Therefore, I would recommend going for a regen route and opening with something like a Regrowth Pendant + 1 Health Pot using Q only for enemy champion harass and try to force them out of lane quickly so that you can B and grab a Philosopher's Stone (+boots1 if you can afford it) before continuing your normal build.


Few things -

I tried a Philo once... *shudder*... never again. It just doesn't work for me.

I pretty much open exactly as you reccomended in the first paragraph, Sapphire Crystal and 2 Health pots does it for me. Then obviously speed boots and then I usually take a RoA unless there's some SERIOUS damage going on at that point (EDIT: I get a Tear before all that, duh...). From then on, it just depends what I need. I just don't think a Regrowth Pendant would help much, but I'll start using 9/0/0 as you suggest I guess.


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Divne

Senior Member

06-13-2011

its actually 15% magic penetration not 15% mp

i recomend getting that one though as the magic regen from masteries is very low and wont profit you at all


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Kallen Kouzuki

Senior Member

06-14-2011

Editted, happy now? That's not the point, but still, I'm sorry, I'm not used to LoL terms yet :/. I was thinking of some other game...


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Amatzikahni

Senior Member

06-14-2011

Quote:
Divne:
its actually 15% magic penetration not 15% mp


Just clarifying that MP = Magic Penetration.

If you're still having problems holding your lane, then the only choices are to change your in-game decisions or alter builds/runes/masteries. You shouldn't have any runes until 20, so masteries and build are the two main choices here. (Although I'd love to tell you what the optimal choices are for every scenario, there are infinite scenarios.)

In terms of gameplay, you could call for the jungler or top-duo lane to cover while you go back, or you can play more passively and only use QWQ(EQ) when they get close. As you get better, you will be recalling fewer times and getting more farm while harassing/zoning your opponents harder, but until you're capable of holding your own every game, I would suggest using a regen-oriented build and playing defensively when below ~95% health. Over time, you will find opportunities to harass/zone and be capable of delivering the pain, and that's when you can optimize your character for the situation instead of using buffers.

From the sound of your original post, your opponents are dealing equal or slightly less harass, so the best thing to do is learn your opponents' abilities and how they use/combo them so that you can harass with impunity. Once you're capable of dealing damage that cannot be returned or you're capable of consistently dealing significantly more damage than your opponent in an exchange, you have mastered the art of harass.

One quick ending note: finishing BV and Glacial Shroud before upgrading the Catalyst to a RoA is almost universally better on Ryze. You get a lot more tankiness and can still deal about the same damage, so your overall solo/teamfighting power goes up (with the exception of a close group of enemies and a leveled E).


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TsurugiHikari

Senior Member

06-14-2011

^ Well he summed up what should be happening in harass quite nicely. There's nothing I would want to add for now on that post.

If you manage to live through those mage masteries route. It'll make your life a lot easier since you'll be able to have an 15% magical penetration without any items. It will scale when someone is stacking their magical resistance and give you a bit of room to get your magical penetration up as well later on.

Other than that, if you're still not comfortable with your champion, take the survival route unless you know you're better off taking the other starting items routes. Hey, I still get a Doran on certain champions for their early benefits depending on how I want to go from early game to mid game and the situation I'm in as well.


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Powerstoned

Member

06-14-2011

Get Magic Penetration first, whether in masteries before 30 or as your first tier 3 rune set.


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Burbinator

Senior Member

06-14-2011

Strength of spirit. Much larger impact than that 15% early game


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Panzerfaust

Emissary of the League

06-14-2011

I'm with Burb. You can get Sorcerer Shoes and your bounce for early game magic pen/reduction, and Void Staff late game if they're stacking a lot of MR. There's not really a good way to make up for the health regen from SoS that doesn't take you too far out of your build.


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