Experience mechanic and low ELO

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iluvalar

Senior Member

12-06-2013

I was in bot lane yesterday and we played like diamond ! My ADC endep up 4/1 and I ended up 4/0 as support before we reached the level 8. We lost very few CS, one of us was alway in the lane. You'd think that with such score, we could have an impact on the mid game. But not at all.

While we were playing a near perfect game on bot lane, our top lane played like rambo and reached that same point with 11/9 KD, and our mid laner lost his to the same kind of rambo assasin player with a KD of 7/10. None of the other player were able to carry, but they managed to generate enough experience and gold from those mutual suicide run, that they finished lvl 12.

We, the bot lane, had about no impact at all in the remaining of the game.

I think it's a major design flaw, it encourage the losing team to play like dumb and all-in repeatedly. Providing many players play like this, a player that try to stay safe and play smart is disadvantaged. It might explain why some people can have so much trouble climbing while they feel they play well; They might have to play worst to climb.

It's likely that the effect was increased by the newest experience changes. That might be why I just saw that and it was previously unknown.

TL;DR : In short, if your bot lane get owned. Get crazy and all-in again and again and again. Even if you kda is lower then 1:1 it will generate so much experience that the bot lane advantage will get "drowned" in it. It might increase your chances to win.

Solution : The consequence of dying must be increased so a 15/20 KDA champion dont get ahead of a 5/0 champion. (given same CS skill and time)


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iluvalar

Senior Member

12-24-2013

Bump. The game sometime favor suicide in bronze. And it's bad for everyone.


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Flipsy

Senior Member

12-24-2013

I understood...none of this. All I understood was "my teammates suicided and played like idiots, therefore explaining why they belong in Bronze. Whereas my bot lane partner and I got to godlike status and still did not carry, and don't belong in Bronze because we won lane and lost game".

Read up on the Dunning-Kruger Effect.


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iluvalar

Senior Member

01-11-2014

No you dont understand, I'm not crying about any particular game. My point is a player who go 12/15 KDA will be of higher level then a 4/0 player. Let me explain again how it can be abused.

Suppose that YOU (as a top player) have a bot lane that do in a game particulary well. Like 7 kills in 7 minutes. You'd think that you are in a good way to win as long as you dont throw somewhere. But you opponent laner try to make a play and jump on you. You kill him that time, but he come back and do it again. And again, and again. you managed to win most of those dumb all-in and you end 12/8. You'd think that this game is actually even more easy to win, but in fact, it's now less easy. Because the top lane (and probably the junglers that tried to stop that madness) is now at level 12 from exchanging that extra experience that is generate out of suicides.

No matter how hard your bot lane carry at level 8. They wont have any impact on that game. You are now, because of outside (and dumb!) decision the only relevant member of your team. And you need to carry with that 12/8 score. Instead of having 2 members of your team carrying with a 4/0 score.

I'm pretty sure that effect is not meant to be like that. The experience gained for being 1:1 shouldn't exceed the experience gained for staying in lane.


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Gingivits

Senior Member

01-11-2014

You have to take into account that when in bot lane, experience gains from killings minions or champions are split when your support is within 1600 units. Not including possible jungler ganks. Thats of course if you are running the normal meta and don't do lane swap or different strategy but thats more of a pre-made thing.


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Gingivits

Senior Member

01-11-2014

Also this isn't a bug so this should go t general chat or somthing. Possibly competitive.


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iluvalar

Senior Member

01-12-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gingivits View Post
You have to take into account that when in bot lane, experience gains from killings minions or champions are split when your support is within 1600 units. Not including possible jungler ganks. Thats of course if you are running the normal meta and don't do lane swap or different strategy but thats more of a pre-made thing.
I know how the experience is shared, I'm not talking about the normal gap between the bot lane and the other lanes. I'm talking about the experience generated by excessive all-ins.

It's not a "bug" as informatic bug. but it's a flaw in the game mechanic right now. Just believe me. going all-in the moment it's possible generate more experience even if you die 50% of the time. After you died, your extra-experience is share with your opponent laner. Who also get to an higher level and become even more valuable to kill. The experience gap can snow ball if one of the player decide to go ham with it.

Maybe I should do the math behind and make a graph so everyone see it ?


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Reitrahc

Member

01-13-2014

Playing "well" is a completely subjective term. If someone has a suicidal strategy where they just keep running into the enemies to get a kill or two knowing they will die, that is a "better" strategy than someone who sits back and is careful to pick off a straggling enemy every so often IF that suicidal strategy wins them the game. Obviously it would not be considered to be a great strategy normally and not everyone should do it, but if it works in certain situations it works. Just like using a specific build might be AMAZING one game, that doesn't mean it should be used every game or in every situation.


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iluvalar

Senior Member

01-13-2014

You don't understand my point. I have no problem with people trying to jumping in and going somewhat 1:1 KDA if they want. It SHOULD be fine.

However, this FORCE the game to resolve around their results. It generate extra experience out of no where which make them the center of the game. It believe it was less pronunced in S3, but now it's obvious for some reasons.


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Korentoth

Senior Member

01-14-2014

According to Lolwiki,

Quote:
The experience gained is equal to 75% of the total experience required for a champion to go from the slain champion's current level to the next level up.
Assuming you are the same level as your opponent, you get this much experience for each kill (in a 1v1 lane):

1) 210
2) 285
3) 360
4) 435
5) 510
6) 585
7) 660
8) 735

(Champions in duo lanes share the experience evenly, but earn 30.4% more total)

Are champion kills worth more than minions? I don't have time right now, but if someone could test how much experience minions give (make note of your experience after each wave), then we can compare experience rates. (Is it possible to gain more experience by killing the opponent every time you return to lane, even if you die sometimes?)


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