Ashe Carrying the Team by Hi Thar

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Zedon

Senior Member

05-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObjectiveTruth View Post
Just to clarify, does Lizard Buff Stack with Slow?
No, and I stopped reading as soon as I read his comment pertaining to this.

Slows not stacking is very much LoL 101.


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MagicChicken

Senior Member

05-23-2010

Okay, I've been reading through some of the posts on this thread, trying to get a sense of what armor pen changes will be made in comparison to armor/MR changes, and it looks like, at first, they were considering having % items reduce someone's *damage resistance*, rather than having it remove their top armor. It also sounds like there's been enough of an outcry that this will stop.

- If they do make the originally proposed change, brutalizer will not be nearly as important late game as it is now, but Last Whisper would be a MUST have.

- If they instead make the changes mentioned at the top of the linked thread, then Brutalizer will still be a great item early on for Ashe, but will slowly lose its effectiveness as they buy armor. A Last Whisper might be necessary, but the impact it will have is significantly less.

Both items will still be entirely viable for this guide though ... they just kinda serve the same purpose at different points in the game. Brutalizer seems good early on, while LW will be good late .... but in either case, getting "true damage" may not be possible.

The greatest value of this guide was to get true damage on you volley, so you can wear targets down from a distance, w.o committing your body into it. Currently, if you volleyed a group several times before a fight, you effectively "soften" them for the gank. Likewise, if you jumped into closer combat, you would do pure damage to carries, and effectively send them running (or kill them) very early in a team fight, if it's safe for you. The ability to "soften" a team up may be lessened next patch, but the anti-caster/carry role with armor pen can still be significant ... just more dangerous. I'd suggest future builds toy around with Banshee's and flat damage items instead of SotO and Levi, since it'll be harder for Ashe to both stack and be effective in the future.


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playshin

Member

06-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zedon View Post
No, and I stopped reading as soon as I read his comment pertaining to this.

Slows not stacking is very much LoL 101.
You missed this then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfire393 View Post
This is what was originally said in the Mechanics FAQ thread, however someone went through and tested it and found that slows are in fact stacking (or they are at least changing the speed numbers displayed in pane). The things that do not stack are multiple slows from items (i.e. if you were to have both a Frozen Mallet and a Rylai's Scepter or a Phage and a Trinity Force only the strongest applies at any one time), but everything else actually does stack.


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Sinbu

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Senior Member

07-24-2010

Nanaz, where are you on Season 1? You're not on the ladder!


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MagicChicken

Senior Member

07-28-2010

he quit the game to go back to wow :-(

needless to say, Ashe has become harder to carry with due to the nerfs, ranked games are really not conducive for getting stack items, and armor pen has changed, making some think Last Whisper is the only armor pen item you need.

I personally agree with the basic concept of this guide still though ... Armor pen + mana regen runes/masteries + straight damage. DO NOT get tempted into the crit ashe build, as it's pretty much a waste, and depending on the game, stacking BFs might be better than upgrading one ... again, depending on the game. Banshee's is still the best defensive item, but again depending on the game, a Guardian Angel may be a better alternative (includes 2 "ifs": 1) if they have a melee dps who likes to dive carries like xin or tryn, and 2) if you're stacking a thirster, and want to protect it)

This guide is still great for strats though.


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GaMEChld

Junior Member

12-28-2010

I've found myself using a variation of this guide with some of the info from comments people made adapted into it.

Masteries: 9/0/21

Runes: Crit Damage reds, Dodge yellows, CDR blues, CDR Glyphs (only because I dont have a large variety of runes yet, this was the best fit I have so far)

Start with Doran Shield (I was amazed at how much easier surviving the early game became with this)

I tend to upgrade the Brutalizer into Ghostblade, and forgo getting Last Whisper.
(This is the main choice that I would like feedback on. Would Last Whisper be a better idea definitely? And just sell the Brutalizer later on? I thought Ghostblade seemed like the more elegant solution.)

Last game I got SotO, Levi, finished Ghostblade, then Infinity, finished off with Phantom Dancer.

So it's a bit crit heavy. I partially rationalized the lack of LW for Ghostblade by figuring the crit damage would help mitigate the armor pen I lose by not getting LW. Also, going crit might make sense just for me because I have to use Crit Damage Runes for the time being. Between Ghost, Flash, good teammates, and some common sense, I was able to go 20 stacks on both items, and finished 11-1-17.

However, I don't pretend to have any credentials when it comes to this, I've only played a few games so far with Ashe. But this has brought me from being the world's worst Ashe to something substantially useful to the team. Again, the main question I have is an analysis comparing Last Whisper to Ghostblade, especially considering my rune situation and whatnot.

Side note: If I am not getting a confident feeling based on my or the rest of the teams performance, I do not go with the snowballing items, and get Infinity sooner, finish Ghostblade, get Bloodthirster, and possibly Banshee Veil and Phantom Dancer. However, that was also due to my lack of confidence in myself, and now I might always try to start snowballing from now on, and then abandon the snowballs only if the stacks get destroyed and the team is losing ground.


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MagicChicken

Senior Member

01-14-2011

HUGE item changes in the works change all this I'd imagine. Here are my thoughts on the item changes and the metagame changes, and how they relate to ashe.

- Last whisper no longer gives Attack Speed, but gives a nice bit of dmg early on. 50% of my games I go Brut first, the other 50% I go LW 1st. Rarely do i get both however (maybe only 10% of games). It really depends on your play-style, and if you're going poke-heavy or DPS-heavy.

- Finding attack speed can be difficult with ashe now with LW gone. This can be made up with using a combo of Starks and Black Cleaver. While not recommended for early game, these two items can be come increasingly deadly late game if you can stand-still long enough in a fight (great synergy between each other too). However, when I am going with a poke-heavy build (IE, Brut/LW), I find that the cheapest Attack speed option is probably best ... and in this case, it synergizes VERY well. I just get a stinger. 10% CDR is a nice boost to volley spam, and ult CD, and may even justify a CDR blue rune set up!

- Defensive items are becoming less and less important for ashe with the change in the meta. Its easier to kite b/c melee DPS and range carries got move-speed and dmg nerfs, and nukers can rarely reach you safely. Perhaps the only threat now are tanks with good CCs, and you can just wait for the CC to burn, or you can pack mercs or cleanse. Banshee's is not needed!

- There are fewer threats out there to ashe, but a couple can be insta-deadly if they get fed (Yi, Akali, Tryn come to mind), but all three depend on snowballing to be effective. Gank them early, and you won't need to worry about them late game. Good positioning can likely save you from these guys, along with the classic threats (ww, udyr), but you no longer need to worry about the nerfed ones (mord, olaf). There are a few tanks who can screw you up if you extend too far forward (shen, Rammus, sion), so still be warry of them ... but since they have little to no DPS, observe when they blow their CC, and when its gone, you can get more bold.

- In general, stack items are becoming less and less effective on ashe it seems. Her role as a poker/initiator can run up a score very quick ... but she's still super squishy, and the item changes have made even more demands on her offensive item choices. Also, getting GA as a backup isn't needed as much anymore. The two major stack items are almost opposite in their use these days. SotO is for games where you are OWNING hard and early. Bloodthirster is good for the long drawn-out games where 1st blood doesn't come until the 15-20 min mark (farm it up baby!). I find one of these items useful in maybe only 5% of all games played.

- Ashe's early game has gotten better! Awhile ago, her volley was nerfed ... but with nerfs to many other ranged DPS< she's starting to shine again, and hard! Use ur 1st crit and volley well in a lane, and you can control it against almost all others. By lvl 2-3, u can have ANYONE under 50% hp if u want, and if you practice this, let your jungle know to gank early ... b/c they'll be ready for a pop! More importantly though, Early game group fights and ganks are becoming more and more important, mostly because of the dragon buffs. The team to come together on Dragon 1st is usually the one that gets it. Ashe EXCELS around this time of game (lvls 7-11), because her ult is a devastating initiate when enemies are at that level (and weak). If you're mid Hawk their jungle if someone is counter-jungling, gank top and bottom lanes when you push your lane to a tower (you don't need to arrow it from afar anymore, get in there and get dirty if you want!), and help control Dragon ... You can easily put the game away at this stage without having to save up for late game and without having to "Carry" the team w/ kills (arrow ults and slow = LOTS of assists ... but this is a good thing!).


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mtpecka

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Junior Member

01-14-2011

I prefer crit. like phantom dacer and infinity edge.


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Arontayn

Member

07-19-2011

where did you get that picture that shows the number of games won and kills and stuff?


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Hi Thar

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Junior Member

11-09-2011

You can't get a picture like that anymore... That was part of the old UI that the game used to have. This is my main account now btw if anyone cares still... This guide is super out of date now... still some useful tips for Ashe players up there, but the build is garbage, and even her spells have changed a bit.