Heimer Build Discussion

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Spazzallo

Senior Member

03-26-2010

wot r fprheak,/?/


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Felgash

Junior Member

03-26-2010

I'v had impression that AP coefficient was reduced only on missles ;0


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Diodorus

Junior Member

03-26-2010

and as a tank support heimer how would you do damage. Your turrets get attack damage from your AP.

I dunno if i ever saw a tank heimer i would just laugh and leave him alone. he will do no damage


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Vindeen

Senior Member

03-26-2010

Hmpf


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The Fat Battler

Senior Member

03-26-2010

I've been experimenting with Heimer builds, and this is what I've got:

Leviathan is a MUST. Heimer gets demolished in team fights without some tankiness, and Leviathan works out fantastically, giving him a ton of HP, and it's easy to get stacks with it. You get 2 stacks per assist, and obviously Heimer has no problem getting assists.

I usually start off with a Sapphire and build it into a Catalyst. Heimer is almost invincible in the laning phase with a Catalyst, and keeping the Catalyst helps a ton. I used to build into Innervating Locket, thinking it could help me with my mana issues, but it doesn't. I rushed into Rod of Ages, which is overall a fantastic item for Heimer, but you have to rush it, and I would rather have Catalyst for longer.

Haunting Guise is great for the magic pen and cooldown, and I'm wondering if buying a Faerie Charm and Rejuvenation bead is worth it early on. With his Ulti's passive, he gets full cooldown.

Chalice is a must, obviously.

I played a game with both Leviathan and Mejai's, and it went pretty well. Leviathan gives you survivability to keep your Mejai's stacks. But Mejai's would rather be used on something that can get kills, so I wouldn't recommend it.

Void Staff sounds like a good idea when paired with Guise or Sorc boots.


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Pyronymer

Senior Member

03-26-2010

Heimer has two things going for him. Magic damage nukes and physical damage turrets.

AP contributes to both. So you become a dual damage type champion. Which screws with a lot of people because while people often invest in armour OR magic resistance they rarely develop a solid presence of both at once.

But in addition because nothing other than AP (and maybe some cooldown) can contribute to the turrets and because your damage types are mixed there is little point in investing in things like Magic penetration and no point in investing in armour penetration or attack boosts.

So. While sorcerers boots might be nice you don't NEED them. Get something faster or something defensive in your footwear. Runes should be (hilariously) straight AP or something defensive. Put masteries in defense and buy ONE cooldown item, or put masteries in cooldowns and buy defensive stuff instead.

Don't worry if you can't squeeze Magic Penetration (or reduction) into your build. It won't help your turrets and while it might be nice on your nukes the AP that DOES help your turrets helps the nukes to. SO JUST GET MORE AP!

So yeah. Heimer build. AP AP AP AP AP (maybe some hit points and defense) AP AP AP.

And max out your turret skills fool.


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Garborg2

Junior Member

03-26-2010

Yea before the missle change I would be preaching Magic Pen all the way. Most my Heimer games I'd end with 55% and -55 pen w/ around 200 AP, now AP rules.


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Vincipoo

Junior Member

03-26-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by keftes View Post
Since heimer got his AP coefficient on grenade nerfed hard (0.55 from 0.8) isnt it better to build heimer with a more tank/support oriented way?
^

I build heimer like this and although I dont dominate, theres a strong pushing presence and gives you the survivability you need as heimy:

(Given that heimer farms a lot, i have 250+ creep kills almost every round)
1. Chalice
2. RoA
3. RoA
4. Archangel :: sell chalice (mana regen from AA should be enough)
5. Rylais or zhonya's, pick between two seconds of invuln or survivability.

usually i can get all this and have 400-500 (depending on rylais or zhonyas) ap.

Hope that helps. xD


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Chisleu

Senior Member

03-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyronymer View Post
But in addition because nothing other than AP (and maybe some cooldown) can contribute to the turrets and because your damage types are mixed there is little point in investing in things like Magic penetration and no point in investing in armour penetration or attack boosts.
In early/mid game, I mainly use missles for lane control and guarding turrets that I actually care to keep alive. Magic Pen helps a ton with minions. I always get max magic damage because of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyronymer View Post
So. While sorcerers boots might be nice you don't NEED them.
Indeed. I always get Boots of Swiftness (or whatever, the boots + 650g for movement:3 boots. I forget the name.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyronymer View Post
Get something faster or something defensive in your footwear. Runes should be (hilariously) straight AP or something defensive. Put masteries in defense and buy ONE cooldown item, or put masteries in cooldowns and buy defensive stuff instead.
Interesting. I wasn't aware that heimer's turrets got damage from AP and gained damage per 7 hits. That's neet.

This is/was my current masteries:
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-le...-2-1-3-0-3-0-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyronymer View Post
Don't worry if you can't squeeze Magic Penetration (or reduction) into your build. It won't help your turrets and while it might be nice on your nukes the AP that DOES help your turrets helps the nukes to. SO JUST GET MORE AP!

So yeah. Heimer build. AP AP AP AP AP (maybe some hit points and defense) AP AP AP.

And max out your turret skills fool.
Now I wish I hadn't just finished building a magic pen run set! haha

I'm using all magic pen marks, health quints, health and mp5 mix of seals (finishing health now) , and all ap/level glyphs.

I'm thinking about your suggestion now. Considering going +mp5 seals instead of health, with AP quints and this build:
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-le...-2-1-0-0-0-0-0

The AP % seems like it could do something late game.

I had been starting with pots. 2-3 health, 9-10 mana. They really keep me active with harassment and pushing hard in early game. I usually send people back to heal trying to take down one of my turrets. It's not ideal, but it works really well for me allowing me to harass hard and lane stay to 1600-2k gold.

Then I go back and get 2x health pendants or 1 health + the high MR item for building Force of Nature (plus mana pots)

Then I go back for everything for force of nature (except the item itself) and boots of swiftness.

I really like the mobility of imp ghost + boots of Swiftness + force of nature. The MR and health regen really helps me with survival. After that it's typically chalice and that's where I've been drawing a blank. I had been getting the blue sword with mp5 and cooldown reduction just because it's cheaper than codex. Sometimes I build Deathfire Grasp for the nuke, when I can remember to use it. haha

As soon as I can, I pick up mana golum buffs and keep them all game (notice imp buff mastery). I stay on top of the timing of their golum and mine to attempt to keep them both down and timed. It helps SOOO much for late game presses against their towers. The missles, grenading the turret, and now I drop turrets next to their turrets for dps. It works really well when there are none of their creeps on the tower and the other team is more concerned with my missles and teamates harassment.

I find mana golems to be the absolute nececity to my heimer success, and I'm 10 wins in a row right now, with several 14/1/15 and 15/4/17 type games

I promise I wasn't saving a missle to finish them off, really. (I mean it.)

This with very little in the realm of AP items. I sometimes get Rod of Ages after I have boots and FoNature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebattler View Post
Haunting Guise is great for the magic pen and cooldown, and I'm wondering if buying a Faerie Charm and Rejuvenation bead is worth it early on. With his Ulti's passive, he gets full cooldown.
I really dig on Haunting Guise, but it doesn't show up in my lists for either of those items (items you can upgrade them to, you know?) I always forget about it. It's a really great item and I think I'll use it in my build somehow. I want to attempt to play an AP build with the new setup, I just enjoy movement speed and survivability so dern much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diodorus View Post
and as a tank support heimer how would you do damage. Your turrets get attack damage from your AP.

I dunno if i ever saw a tank heimer i would just laugh and leave him alone. he will do no damage
I play him as a true support right now. tank items, cooldown reduction masteries and a mix of offensive and defensive runes. I build q/w/q/e/q/r/q/w/etc (modified as needed)

Laugh and leave me alone? lol, bad idea. My AoE blind, stun, missles, and ability to drop turrets and ulti to stop any runners is reason enough to focus fire. When we push from river to inhib-turret, (1st 2 down) I drop a turret every creep wave so I have them spaced out behind me, if someone comes from behind, or we need to run, I can ulti and the team usually makes it out. with ghost and FoNature+BoSwiftness I can maneuver to stun their lead/taunt/slow/etc and keep them from catching the slower members of the raid team. missle harassment works well too. It's just demoralizing more than anything. I rarely have more than 100AP in my current build although I'm considering a rune, mastery, and item build shift twards AP.

Not because I'm unsuccessful with my current build (over 10 heimer wins in a row, although I'm only 185:163 win:loss ratio at level 30. Simply because I want to try something new and see if I can be more effective.

I typically play with a setup similar to this:
Shen/Udyr, Taric/Heimer, Teemo/Twitch, Ryze/Ezreal, Mundo/Siver.

We always make sure we have plenty of burst and sustained DPS and I let them do their jobs while I crowd control, push lanes hard, chase, and farm golums.

I love this game. The versatility of so many of the champions makes every game so different and interesting!


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Chisleu

Senior Member

03-28-2010

BTW, I liked heimerdinger before, but I REALLY love him now!


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