Towers are generally too weak in this game.

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jedininjaman

Senior Member

03-23-2010

IMO,
It seems every hero can tower dive in this game and I find it terribly frustrating that I can be doing just fine in a lane while another lane was feeding and their enemies can just tower dive and kill me. Seriously almost every hero can do it. Here are som plausible solutions I have for the problem..

-Have a threshold where if an enemy hero walks past the tower, the tower will automatically target it even if creeps are present.

-Generally increse the strength of the towers, especially the inhibitor and nexus towers. I would like to see the nexus towers strong enough to detur level 18 heros from charging in and taking 3-4 shots.

-Slightly extend the Tower range to limit harassing while defending against creeps.

In DotA tower diving was suicide. Period. here, by level 9, every hero can do it, especially with buffs like zil's movespeed, ghost..etc


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Squee Goblin Nabob

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Senior Member

03-23-2010

While I generally agree that the towers need to be buffed a little bit, the statement about dota is just plain wrong. Tower diving in dota was just as frequent as it is in LoL. Not only that the targeting for towers was the same for both.


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BioVirus

Senior Member

03-23-2010

i agree, the towers should target champions over minnions regardless since they are the bigger threat insted of minnions. AS LONG as the enemy hero is present. If theres no one defending the tower then the towers attack minnions first.


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Ashtorath

Member

03-23-2010

If tower hits applied a heavy slow, diving would be a lot more dangerous.


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amraK

Senior Member

03-23-2010

Quote:
Generally increse the strength of the towers, especially the inhibitor and nexus towers. I would like to see the nexus towers strong enough to detur level 18 heros from charging in and taking 3-4 shots.
I think towers are fine.

At level 18 the game should be at its end. I personally like how some games are won before anyone hits 18, it allows to have stronger characters early in the game that taper off and become less useful and other characters that shine once they hit 18. If you cannot push towers down at 18 you won't ever be able too...


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toonX

Member

03-23-2010

what are you guys talking about.

how exactly will you have to kill towers if they auto targeted heroes.

games would go on for hours.

you'd have to have a tank go in first every **** time just to put in a few hits on the tower. and thats if
they don't have like two people on the tower than they could hold off a whole team. that's dumb.

the only time i see dirty tower diving is late game and at that point i mean the game is almost over. when
you tower dive early game you are taking a huge risk most of the time.


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tbwen

Junior Member

03-23-2010

Quote:
-Have a threshold where if an enemy hero walks past the tower, the tower will automatically target it even if creeps are present.

-Generally increse the strength of the towers, especially the inhibitor and nexus towers. I would like to see the nexus towers strong enough to detur level 18 heros from charging in and taking 3-4 shots.

-Slightly extend the Tower range to limit harassing while defending against creeps.

In DotA tower diving was suicide. Period. here, by level 9, every hero can do it, especially with buffs like zil's movespeed, ghost..etc
On the official reasons of why LoL instead of dota, riot put down for denying that
Quote:
It leads to passive play, and slows down the game. We feel that high-activity; high-action faster games are more fun. By not having denying, there’s a stronger incentive to push. Additionally, it prevents strong lane control which is ultimately about passive play. Team fights more than anything else are what make this genre fun, and faster games mean more team fights.
Having towers pwn lvl 18 chars definitely lengthens the game considerably, having longer range towers with auto hero targeting would making pushing completely suicidal and if you're dying, there's not much incentive to push. In dota, towers were weaker than the ones here by a lot unless you played RD, in which case, they still weren't that much more powerful.


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Lucchinii

Senior Member

03-23-2010

I think turrets do need some sort of buff.

Say.. Turrets closer to the bases have more hp, do more damage, or all towers become stronger as the game progresses.

I don't like seeing 6 turrets, and 2-3 inhibitors go down by the time I respawn.


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NRue

Senior Member

03-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squee Goblin Nabob View Post
While I generally agree that the towers need to be buffed a little bit, the statement about dota is just plain wrong. Tower diving in dota was just as frequent as it is in LoL. Not only that the targeting for towers was the same for both.
Incorrect. DotA towers prioritize, if I recall :

1. An enemy hero that attacks an allied hero.
2. An enemy unit that attacks an allied hero.
3. An enemy hero that is attacking the tower.
4. An enemy unit that is attacking the tower.
5. The closest enemy hero/unit.

(Priorities only change abruptly if an allied hero is attacked. Otherwise, priorities are changed naturally only if its current target dies)

LoL towers, by contrast...

An enemy hero that attacks an allied hero.
(An enemy unit that attacks an allied hero?).
The closest non/hero unit.
The closest hero unit.

Basically, LoL towers specifically avoid attacking heroes if minions are present, though they *do* switch targets in the event of an allied hero under fire.

(These priorities may not be entirely accurate, however -- it is based on my memory and my observations. Take it with salt.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by BioVirus View Post
i agree, the towers should target champions over minnions regardless since they are the bigger threat insted of minnions. AS LONG as the enemy hero is present. If theres no one defending the tower then the towers attack minnions first.
I remember Riot saying that they wanted more aggressive teamplay, more lane pushing, more action as opposed to passive defending. This is most likely why they specifically made it so you could use minions as shields while you reamed that tower -- pushing in numbers, especially without the threat of being unable to deny your own creeps, means that you get free reign of the tower. In DotA, this wasn't the case -- you had to juggle the tower's priorities. Smacking a tower as a melee hero, especially when your own creeps prioritized enemy creeps over the tower, essentially meant you would be the prime target for at least two to three shots. Unless you had an overwhelming creep advantage (preferably with zero enemy creeps) or your hero was made for survival, you really couldn't assault it early on.


LoL towers actually seem to be more painful than their DotA counterparts, whereas DotA towers are quite a bit harder to destroy. I, personally, don't mind the current state of affairs, although towers that grow slightly(!) stronger over the course of the game could be beneficial.


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jedininjaman

Senior Member

03-23-2010

I dont think towers should auto-aquire heroes all the time, I just think there should be more guidelines to discourage tower diving.


Like:
- in the presence of a tower an enemy champion can not release multiple spells successively. Like there would be a 2 second cd put on all abilities to prevent bursting. (This would prevent Ryze/Annie/insert hero/ from unleashing 300-400 damage combo once he hits level 6.)
This would solve most tower diving issues, without making it impossible. It just wouldn't be possible to kill someone with 30% health within towers range.
Also I dont want the towers to be too strong late game, just something to keep the creeps off your nexus, and keep a fed enemy hero from wandering in and out of there range without consequence.