Got rolled by a full burst team, advice?

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Dr Troll

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Senior Member

03-22-2010

Had a fairly balanced team, TF, Alistar, Nasus, Zil, and someone else I can't remember who was phys dps. Their team was Ryze, Annie, AP TF, Zil, and AP Sion.

I know, Banshee's veil, stack MR, but they started melting us down very early game and there was nothing we could do about it in team fights. Our Alistar would try to initiate and they would either ignore him or burst him down and then run off. If our group went in, they would just double bomb/tibbers aoe stun/ryze nuke/Sion Shell/WC and we were dead in about half a second. Chasing weakened units down wasn't an option because of the mass stuns they had. They also all went boots of swiftness so they could unload as a team and then bail as a team.

We tried dragging the game out as AP gets weaker later on, but they were just five manning our turrets. Even 5v5+our turrets, they would dive, unload massive AOE burst and wipe us all. They were able to do this fairly early, at around I think lvl 8-10.

To be honest, our Alistar wasn't that great and we probably could have adjusted better early game, but I really don't think even 50 early MR per champ would have helped that much as we were going from full to dead in less than a second.

Anyway, any advice on how to handle this? I'm seeing this kind of strategy every now and then and it's always very hard to deal with. It definitely fails if they can't put the game away pretty early, but making the game last that long is very difficult.


tl;dr, how do you handle a full burst/stun AP team?


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Riot aBhorsen

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eSports Coordinator

03-22-2010

As you state, the only real way would be to stack MR, especially Banshee's as after that initial burst they should be weakened.

We had the same yesterday, we still lost but our Malphite was running 200+ MR and he was soaking up a hella lot of damage.


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Silent Reaper

Senior Member

03-22-2010

Lmao, you're Alistar on you're team was a noob then lol.

In a team fight all Alistar has to do is Ultimate, flash, Pulverize and then Headbutt one of them. And please don't tell me that it isn't possible. I do it all the time lulz.

My Win/Lose ratio with Alistar is 49-21. So i think you can consider me as a viable source . In most cases all you gotta do it just wear them out, play defensive and just wait for them to make a mistake.

Zilean is probably the one you want to be careful with the most. If he gets fed, it's usually a gg because of his insane AoE damage. If you play a good Zilean he can wipe out an easy 1.5k of you're entire teams health. P.s. remember that he has a revive spell.

Personally when in a team fight with this group try to take out TF and Ryze as fast as possible. Then proceed to killing Annie then Sion and last Zilean.

Hope it helps.


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PhoenixBomb

Senior Member

03-22-2010

It was the Alistar. He was the lynchpin for your team in that match-up; if he wasn't playing top-notch, you couldn't win. He's the means of taking out Annie, who is their initiator, or Ryze, their primary damage dealer. If he can't stun them both and punt one of them to the rest of you (followed by the TF gold carding the one that wasn't punted), then yes, you will probably die, regardless of your MR gear.

Even then, though, you'll still have trouble due to the stuns coming from Sion and TF and Zil's ult. Your team just kinda lacked CC against one that had boatloads of it. This is just one of those examples where, in blind pick, you can really get screwed.


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Eat dat chammich

Senior Member

03-22-2010

In uncoordinated pugs vs coordinated burst aoe/good five man set ups, I've had some success with hard pushing the lanes that they are not in. Split your teams into two's or so and just try to avoid team fights. This can sometimes make them play defensively enough to survive till late game. Best case scenario is that they start splitting up to stop your multi front threat and you can start getting kills in small skirmishes. Worst case scenario they are smart enough to understand if they just push one lane they win.

Basically just try things other than facing off 5v5 with them.


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ntr0py

Senior Member

03-22-2010

http://leaguecraft.com/item/Negatron%20Cloak

48 mag res for 740gold


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skystream92

Senior Member

03-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eat dat chammich View Post
In uncoordinated pugs vs coordinated burst aoe/good five man set ups, I've had some success with hard pushing the lanes that they are not in. Split your teams into two's or so and just try to avoid team fights. This can sometimes make them play defensively enough to survive till late game. Best case scenario is that they start splitting up to stop your multi front threat and you can start getting kills in small skirmishes. Worst case scenario they are smart enough to understand if they just push one lane they win.

Basically just try things other than facing off 5v5 with them.
This is a good idea.

Also, was your nasus going tank as well? Two tanks against that lineup would work well.


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Kinney

Senior Member

03-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Troll View Post

Anyway, any advice on how to handle this? I'm seeing this kind of strategy every now and then and it's always very hard to deal with. It definitely fails if they can't put the game away pretty early, but making the game last that long is very difficult.


tl;dr, how do you handle a full burst/stun AP team?
Fiddlesticks.


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Kyuketsuki

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Recruiter

03-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by La Migra View Post
Fiddlesticks.
Also on champs wise: Kassadin and Veigar.

Other than that the problem with that team (and the game in general) too much cc.
Seriously, how many non-cc champs are there are there currently?
6 - Katarina, Sivir, Yi, Mordekaiser, Ezreal, Nidalee.

Again since there are so many casters in that game, invest in MR. but a great way to do this is get items like merc treads and my favorite against casters Wit's End.
Provides 30 magic resist, 40 attack speed, and does 42 magic damage on hit.

Tank should always get aegis of the legion. It gives all the people in the aura a free longsword, cloth armor, and most important in this case a null-magic mantle.

Since alistar is on your team and has truimphant roar, getting Spirit Visage is another great tactic to make his heals even better and again provide cc resist.

since they had a fed TF/Zilean you can't push side lanes, so yeah pretty much gg since they deny your team from getting exp and gold.


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Dr Troll

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Senior Member

03-22-2010

Definitely could have just been the Alistar not playing too well.

The talk about counter picking with other champions doesn't really help, as in the majority of cases we aren't going to be taking Veiger or Kassadin unless we knew in advance it was a full ap burst team.

We did try to counter by delaying the game and avoiding teamfights, but they were just crushing our groups or five maning our turrets. I believe most of them also had teleport so they were just shutting our pushes down easily.

I'll chalk it up to meh tanking then I suppose; I was TF and I couldn't think of anything I could do to counter them as they were never split up, thus never open for a destiny gank. Thanks for the help.


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