Things We Need to More Accurately Judge Cases

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Darmon

Senior Member

05-28-2011

Yep. We just need more details in general. This is a good starting point, but more is better, as long as its relevant and helps streamline judgments.


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BokuWaKuma

Junior Member

05-28-2011

In addition to some of those things I think some sort of of severity scale might be appropriate in judging their punishment, like a 1-5. While some people deserve a punishment, they might not deserve too harsh of one and just need a wake up call to knock it off.


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Zanoni

Senior Member

05-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhsX View Post
I don't know how quickly this forum moves; although I did scan the front page for something like this and didn't see a thread. I'll be glad to repost contribute to a different thread if there is already one going. Feel free to post the things listed here which would be most helpful to you when judging cases, or suggest things to add to the list.

Things we need to judge the more questionable cases:
  • Map Played
  • Ranked, Normal, Co-op VS AI, or Custom (Tribunal cases have been appearing for foul players in custom games such as ARAM)
  • Time Spent DC'd (If reconnected), Also Time of Disconnection
  • Champion Names in chat log
  • Events in chat log -- For example, The player in question's Kills, Assists, and Deaths
  • Order of Items Purchased
  • Time Elapsed in Game (Rather than the timestamp) in chat log
  • Summoner Level or Number of Games Played
  • Post-Game Lobby Chat Log
  • Total Team Scores (To more easily identify "feeding")
  • Pre-game Lobby Chat (Perhaps unfeasible, but would be nice to determine pregame rage/trolling)
  • Summoner Spells

These are all that the fellow posters and I can think of for now, if anyone else has any others feel free to post and I'll add them to the list. Hopefully Roit sees the list and implements some/all of these things.
I'm not sure how summoner level would help. There are level 30's who play like scrubs. But, showing the reported player's ELO in ranked matches might help identify trolls.

Also, I'd like to know who started surrender votes and the final outcome of those votes. A losing player will often afk or start to feed after a failed surrender vote, so seeing that information might help us piece together what's going on.


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PhsX

Member

05-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanoni View Post
I'm not sure how summoner level would help. There are level 30's who play like scrubs. But, showing the reported player's ELO in ranked matches might help identify trolls.

Also, I'd like to know who started surrender votes and the final outcome of those votes. A losing player will often afk or start to feed after a failed surrender vote, so seeing that information might help us piece together what's going on.
Honestly to me, the emphasis is if the player is level 5, not level 30. It's easier to cut a beginner slack. I do agree with showing ELO for ranked matches. Surrender vote would be useful too.


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superpyro40

Senior Member

05-28-2011

I actually like these ideas. And they would definitely help. I'd make sure that these things could be easily accessible from logs though. For example, item purchase order is probably not that easy to find in logs. But lobby chat and team statistics I think would be the best two things. If I had to pick two, it'd be those two.


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Tiapoa

Member

05-28-2011

Definitely agreed. This list would help tremendously. This should be seriously considered.


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Dreampod

Senior Member

05-28-2011

Given that these all would require some or a lot of engineering or programming work I'm breaking the list into ones I think are vital, would be nice, and minimally valuable (and potentially actually negatives due to overloading with unnecessary info).

VITAL
-map and gametype
-champion names (because players often refer to each other by these)
-kills, deaths, disconnects in chatlog
-post-game chat log

NICE
-surrender votes in chat log
-summoner level
-time elapsed from game start rather than timestamps
-pre-game lobby chat

MINIMAL VALUE
-order of items purchased
-summoner spells
-total team scores
-ELO score


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PhsX

Member

05-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreampod View Post
Given that these all would require some or a lot of engineering or programming work I'm breaking the list into ones I think are vital, would be nice, and minimally valuable (and potentially actually negatives due to overloading with unnecessary info).

VITAL
-map and gametype
-champion names (because players often refer to each other by these)
-kills, deaths, disconnects in chatlog
-post-game chat log

NICE
-surrender votes in chat log
-summoner level
-time elapsed from game start rather than timestamps
-pre-game lobby chat

MINIMAL VALUE
-order of items purchased
-summoner spells
-total team scores
-ELO score
Excellent point. I think I updated the OP accordingly.


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Vsin

Senior Member

05-28-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreampod View Post
Given that these all would require some or a lot of engineering or programming work I'm breaking the list into ones I think are vital, would be nice, and minimally valuable (and potentially actually negatives due to overloading with unnecessary info).

VITAL
-kills, deaths, disconnects, surrenders in chatlog
-post-game chat log
-pre-game lobby chat

NICE
-champion names (because players often refer to each other by these)
-map and gametype
-summoner spells
-total team scores

MINIMAL VALUE
-order of items purchased
-summoner level
-ELO score
-time elapsed from game start rather than timestamps
Edited and re-sorted for my opinion.

- Map is kinda pointless. If you see bannable offenses, it doesn't matter if you're playing on Summoner's Rift or Proving Grounds.

- Gametype is nice, but it's only useful for those particularly extreme cases, and in many cases in ranked you'll have people mentioning "noob bans" or something like that. Even ARAM/Draft Racing/Protect Soraka/Etc matches feature textual information.

- Added surrenders to the chatlog section. It's simply "ALL CHAT LOG INFORMATION". Y'know, since it's all there already and it really helps define context.

- Pre-game chat is underrated. Stuff like "omg noob banned morde i feed" in pregame may result in absolutely zero chat by the guy midgame. Context is always a good thing.

- Total team score is actually pretty meh. If someone is intentionally feeding, they're also making it harder for their allies, and thus the allies are also dropping like flies. The context of the reported player in this case is plenty to work with, and 0/40/0 cases are obvious regardless.

- Time elapsed is just a quality of life change. Just do some really rough math in your head and you can determine the time spacing between events. The timestamp itself is also really helpful since you can see if it happened at 1 AM or 6 PM, which does help determine the context.

- Champion names are pretty meh, since you know who your case is playing and I think that any of the other champions would provide minimal extra information. So what if Ashe is noob at using arrows and Alistar isn't building tank, the problem is that the Evelynn you're reviewing has 30 Vision Wards.

TL: DR
Context. We need more details on it.


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Lacksadaisy

Junior Member

05-28-2011

Something important from your list there was not underlined:
"Time Spent DC'd (If reconnected), Also Time of Disconnection"

Some things you do not need to know to accurately evaluate the game:
"Map Played"
"Ranked, Normal, Co-op VS AI, or Custom"
"Summoner Spells"
"Total Team Scores"

All of these would deter you from actual investigation of the game in question and would only obscure your evaluation, bias your opinion, and make it more difficult to accurately judge the outcome. ARAM is a bit of a problem, true, but most ARAMs are played in good spirit (even if there is a lot of swearing and poo-slinging) being a just-for-fun style of play so will probably not have (many) reports come out of it. But that should be something visible only to the appointed supervisors handling the reports at the level past tribunal.
The order of items might be a moderately useful one, in that some people sell all their items towards the end of the game whenever possible so it can leave you confused. However, and this is just a personal rant here, I feel too many people handling the Tribunal would be biased, frustrated players and relate too personally to the players build, leading to an automatic punish based on "bad builds" because you personally think the player is bad for building that. Yes, blatantly bad builds (6 boots or such) should be punished, but being a bad player is not a punishable offense, being a terrible person is. Just because someone builds something that is possibly not the greatest build in the world does not mean they are aware of this and did it intentionally.
Besides those, I agree with you on everything else.