Tough Call Scenarios: What would you do?

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w3ak

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Senior Member

05-26-2011

As for the scenario with Poppy, Morde and Zil, if you have a really bad team composition then there may be very little you can do. If your team comp. is decent, then it depends on who poppy is targeting. If she is going for squishy AP, they could try get hourglass to waste some of her ulti time (or force her to go for someone else at least) or dodge a Zil bomb. Otherwise you could try getting sash to cancel her stun or zileans slow. Your AD champs could potentially get ghostblade for the movement speed buff to run from poppy if persued and armor pen/buff for taking down morde/zil a little faster.

I could be completely wrong though


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El Hebrew Hammer

Senior Member

05-26-2011

Please bold the first half of your last sentence OP. It's so true


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TheOneTrueAustin

Senior Member

05-26-2011

I've got another scenario. You're Renekton, you do 80%+ of your damage strictly through abilities. You are being chased by a poppy with <100 health. You have 50 health. All of your abilities are on cooldown.

What do you do?

SPOILERS:
You run away until your Q comes off cooldown, you hit Poppy with it, she somehow survives and instantly gibbs you. Your teammate questions your sexual orientation in all chat and then ragequits. You lose the impending 2v3 despite being ahead in both kills and towers.


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ac3y

Member

05-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneTrueAustin View Post
I've got another scenario. You're Renekton, you do 80%+ of your damage strictly through abilities. You are being chased by a poppy with <100 health. You have 50 health. All of your abilities are on cooldown.

What do you do?

SPOILERS:
You run away until your Q comes off cooldown, you hit Poppy with it, she somehow survives and instantly gibbs you. Your teammate questions your sexual orientation in all chat and then ragequits. You lose the impending 2v3 despite being ahead in both kills and towers.
That sounds like a suspiciously specific scenario... and likewise with the "spoilers" lol.

I would run. If she's gonna catch me anyways, wait till W and try to somehow stun and then Q.


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JayAce

Senior Member

05-27-2011

Didn't read the other scenarios, but for the first scenario if it was top tower, you help your team fight mid.

If its bot tower, and you know you can get 100% sure, then you take that tower. Once you get bot tower, you basically get dragon uncontested


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YourRoleModel

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Senior Member

05-27-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by w3ak View Post
As for the scenario with Poppy, Morde and Zil, if you have a really bad team composition then there may be very little you can do. If your team comp. is decent, then it depends on who poppy is targeting. If she is going for squishy AP, they could try get hourglass to waste some of her ulti time (or force her to go for someone else at least) or dodge a Zil bomb. Otherwise you could try getting sash to cancel her stun or zileans slow. Your AD champs could potentially get ghostblade for the movement speed buff to run from poppy if persued and armor pen/buff for taking down morde/zil a little faster.

I could be completely wrong though
I was Kog'Maw that game so I could damage Poppy badly but not finish her due to her defenses getting stronger the closer she is to death, her damage mitigation, her ult, zilean's ult, her speed, zilean's speed, etc.

What she'd do is wait until her health was low and then Ult Sona, who couldn't finish Poppy... so, she was basically invincible during her ult.

Yeah... we tried splitting up, we tried different things but they had wards and moved faster than us.

Our Lux who was raging didn't actually do much... at the end of that losing effort where we were outkilled almost 2-1, I had 300 minion kills and went 8-7-14 (roughly). So yeah, I was doing my best to push and contribute.


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YourRoleModel

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05-27-2011

It sounds like the tower scenario (it was top, I was singed) is something that good, reasonable players disagree on.

My teammate told me to learn to play when I came to help mid.

It sounds like... honestly it's up to the group who is mid NOT to engage if someone is split pushing, and if they want my help they should call for it. If I have any way to quickly indicate what I'm doing, then, sure, I'll do that as well.

Like I said... I do buy wards, play defensively... I don't think I'm a feeder. (sometimes the other team is so much better that no matter what you do, they're going to simply win)

I've played with guys who are ranked in the 1,500 without feeding, and I've even carried my team in some of those scenarios. I've also played on worse teams and ended up doing worse vs lower ranked players... so, who knows?

But typically, I try to minimize being a liability and I play conservatively.

People who want to be aggressive and tower dive tend not to like my playstyle, where, I slowly earn more money than the other team and gradually build an advantage to win in a later-game steamroll.

I've won some games in 20 minutes but typically it's a methodical win that takes longer.

I'm also the type of player who finds himself involved in games where it looks like we're losing... (because the other team went into gank/teamfight mode sooner) but then we end up winning the teamfights and ultimately winning the game due to farming better.

But... yeah, I can tell there are simply people in here that have quicker reactions and seem to know every conceivable scenario with any champ combination in the game. It must take years to get to that level. I didn't play DoTa and just got LoL in October.

Considering that, being 15 over .500 with over 300 wins probably means that a reasonably good team in a reasonably matched game... I'm not a liability and will usually be an asset.

It just gets tough to keep it in perspective with all the complainers.


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Phrixscreoth

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Senior Member

05-27-2011

I know exactly how you feel, Model. I play more defensively, wards, started in november, etc.

From my personal experience, unless the top tower is rather weak, I'd try and be where the fight is going to break out so I don't have to make that choice. But that's mostly cause I tend to play champs like Lux who can't take out a tower real quick.

When I play someone with some more pushing power, I tend push up lanes and would, in that scenario, push up the lane instead of running to the possible fight. If a fight breaks out, by the time you get there it'd probably be too late, and I've seen cases where the other team sees you coming to help and jumps on you in the river.

When complainers get to much for me to bear, I try and do a couple games with people I know who don't complain, so if complaints happen we can laugh about it together. Or grumble. But either way, it's more bearable with friends


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Rrbhaunoch

Senior Member

05-27-2011

Don't let the griefers get you down mate They just want to win...try to communicate better what you are trying to do both before and after things happen.

Scenario 1: if you know you have a good chance to take out the tower, you always take out the tower. They key is to communicate to your team that you are not coming to the team fight, do not initiate, but encourage them to keep poking (to keep them away from your lane). You could debate all day 'well if you are playing this champ, and you have this team comp do this' a million different ways. The end all in LoL is that dead towers is what wins games. The key to not having people grief at you is making sure they know what you are doing as soon as you can relay it to them!

Scenario 2: don't fight them where they want to fight. Sit at your tower for a few minutes until they get bored and try to push up to your tower and jump that Zil.

Scenario 3: If you are squishy, I feel your obligation to your team is to stay alive. I think you should switch targets rather than running a gauntlet of damage, particularly if you are heavy in lifesteal and/or spell vamp items. Focus your fire and first round of CC on the enemy carry, if they get away, focus your dps on whoever you can get to. It is always important to know if you need to save your CC for one particular champion (like saving a silence/stun for katarina's ult, WW's ult, for the Leblanc you know will try to flash in and burst you down and flash out again etc)


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JohnCataldo

Senior Member

05-27-2011

One overall thought: Most of the decisions here are things where if your team all plays appropriately and together, you can make the decision be right. Each of these can fail pretty hard if you make one decision that your team doesn't support.

If your team initiates 4v5, obviously it's terrible. If your team focuses 3 different guys, it's always wrong. If half your team chases a runner while half fight 2v4, it's probably bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YourRoleModel View Post
Scenario 1:
You're in top or bottom alone and you see a team fight going towards mid. It's in the early stages of the game. You can push the outer tower and possibly draw the enemy back or destroy the tower. Or you can head up/down river and join the team fight.

If you don't push the tower, you'll be criticized that towers win games and you don't know how to play. If you don't join the team fight and they initiate or don't defend carefully enough, you'll be blamed for that too.
It definitely depends on more than you've provided. Consider:
- Can your team defend mid without you? If so, it's more likely that pushing is right.
- How much is your champion oriented towards pushing? Team fighting? Farming? Sivir is more likely to want to push the tower. Katarina is more likely to want to join the team fight. Tryndamere may be best off farming that bottom lane mostly for the creep kills (especially since you say it's still early in the game).
- What's the exact status of mid and how fast can you get there? If the fight is already broken out and you don't have boots, there's almost no point in going. If you are a fast champ with fast movement (or teleport!), OR the fight hasn't really happened yet, you might be able to get there before the enemy expects it, and surprise them.
- Which team is better at team fighting? Every game there will be one team that's better. Are you that team? Some teams should be using split-push strategies.
- Do you have wards up? Can you safely push even if 1-2 champions go missing for 5-10 seconds?
- Is the tower hurt? Can you take it in one creep wave?

Basically, this is a really common issue and you should mostly know the answer before it comes up. Think about it before it comes up. Ideally, this is part of your "map awareness" -- knowing how helpful it is to push vs. join a team fight (which varies at different times during the game).

Put another way, I don't think there's a generic right answer that's true all the time, but I think that most of the time there is a right answer that most players should be confident in.

Quote:
Scenario 2:
You're in a team fight vs some tough to kill champs. Let's say Morde, Poppy, and Zilean are the core of the danger.
There's no simple answer here, but (1) they are all magic damage, so stacking any kinds of MR is right if they are really the threat (2) you may be able to kite these guys, depending on your champions. This sort of presumes Zilean is hanging back and not harassing better than your team is (along with Morde, but he's avoidable most of the time.)

It's hard to give more exact advice, since positioning is a big deal. This is almost more tactical than strategic. If it's equally easy to hit them all, I'd want to force Zilean out of the fight or to ult himself first (and he's probably the squishiest anyway), but don't blow all your cooldowns and ultimates on him.

Quote:
Scenario 3:
You're an equal opportunity damage dealer like Kog'Maw or Warwick or some other champ with a Madreds but who is relatively soft.

Your team starts to focus an enemy carry but they save themselves somehow... flash out, use some ability, whatever.

You can chase them through their entire team and towers while getting focused so that you get the kill... or you can switch targets. If you chase, the whole team might get aced. If you switch to a tougher target, the squish could get some healing and pop back into the fight.
This does depend somewhat on champions and exact positioning/gamestate, but I think most of the time chasing the solo runner is going to end badly. (1) Your entire team won't do it, so you break up your own team this way. (2) Kills are not all important. Getting the DPS out of the fight is a more important goal than actually killing him most of the time, in a team fight. The trick is making sure to punish him if he comes back.

As an example, we egged Anivia in a team fight. Most of us correctly ignored her since there were other people still dealing damage at the time -- she was out of the fight for a while and didn't need immediate killing.


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