Tough Call Scenarios: What would you do?

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YourRoleModel

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Senior Member

05-26-2011

Ever been in those scenarios where, you can see the enemy team is playing well and positioning carefully which gives you two less-than-optimal options? And no matter which you pick, there's always someone on your team griefing that you should have done the other option as if it was obvious and you're stupid and they're the only person on earth who knows how to play LoL?

Help me out here... are these tough calls or no-brainers?

Scenario 1:
You're in top or bottom alone and you see a team fight going towards mid. It's in the early stages of the game. You can push the outer tower and possibly draw the enemy back or destroy the tower. Or you can head up/down river and join the team fight.

If you don't push the tower, you'll be criticized that towers win games and you don't know how to play. If you don't join the team fight and they initiate or don't defend carefully enough, you'll be blamed for that too.

Push tower or join team? (or depends on champ)


Scenario 2:
You're in a team fight vs some tough to kill champs. Let's say Morde, Poppy, and Zilean are the core of the danger. Zilean is hanging back, and to get to him means running a gauntlet of damage. Morde is pretty tanky and dies slowly and is saving is ult. Poppy is kind of squishy but if you attack her, she just ults your lowest damage output and then face-rolls. Even if you do get an advantage, Zilean is speeding and ulting the champ you're focusing.

How do you approach that fight?

I was in that situation the other night and no matter who we focused, or if we switched, or if we backed off and tried to initiate elsewhere... nothing worked. With Zilean's ult, Morde having a GA, morde's ghost, Poppy becoming impossible to kill the closer to death she is, etc... what is the right thing to do?

I suggested everyone getting BVs to at least make it tougher for them. We tried basically everything in different fights while our Lux raged at us for being useless.

Is there some really obvious approach to easily wrecking that combo (and they were played well and carefully) that in 700 games of LOL I've never come across?

A few times we were able to angle out Zilean and take him out but, they were pretty good players and didn't usually let this happen.


Scenario 3:
You're an equal opportunity damage dealer like Kog'Maw or Warwick or some other champ with a Madreds but who is relatively soft.

Your team starts to focus an enemy carry but they save themselves somehow... flash out, use some ability, whatever.

You can chase them through their entire team and towers while getting focused so that you get the kill... or you can switch targets. If you chase, the whole team might get aced. If you switch to a tougher target, the squish could get some healing and pop back into the fight.

If you do anything other than "focus fire" on the DPS, someone on your team will complain.

If you put yourself in danger and die trying to "focus fire" the DPS, someone on your team will complain.

How often and when do you switch targets?

Personally if I'm a tank I try to set up or isolate a target to make it obvious for the DPS... and if I'm a DPS, I tend to focus on the safest target that is most killable.

And when this works (18 games over .500) it's gold. But, if the other team just outplays you or it doesn't go well, someone is raging that you should uninstall or have no clue how to play or whatever.

Are there blatantly obvious right and wrong things to do in these scenarios, or, are these all close judgment calls that could go either way depending on your team, champs, items, play styles, etc?

Obviously I think the griefers tend to personally cause their own teams to lose by being so critical and negative and hypocritical about their own shortcomings, but, if there's a clear better choice in any of the above scenarios I'm open minded.


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KniForz

Junior Member

05-26-2011

Here's my two cents:

Scenario 1 : It depends on your champion I would say. If it is a good pusher, I would continue pushing the lane to draw back one/two enemies to give your team the advantage. Because even if you want to join them, the time you get there, there's a good chance the team fight will be over. If they initiate at 4v5, Then I would say THEY are doing the wrong thing.

Scenario 2: You're getting outplayed. It happens, play the best you can then move on to the next game.

Scenario 3: Usually, I never tower dive a dps unless I'm 100% to get the kill. A low health DPS/carry won't come back to the fight. If he/she does get healed, the fight should be over or close to be over.



When people complains too much I started using this trick " ignore /all".
That works like a charm. Play your game. Get concentrated and do the best you can.


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NJ SWD SONG

Member

05-26-2011

S1) have your team kite and poke at them, don't let them engage a 4v5. Push the tower and take it until the other team realizes you're split pushing.

S2) don't force team fights, only engage when its 5v5. In this case, Split pushing will win you the game, keeping those 3 away from each other will be priority. BUY WARDS and see if u can catch one of them off guard, when one is down--push. Counter pushing is the way to go as well as split pushing...also did i mention, buy wards?

S3) You're building WW the wrong way.................zzz


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YourRoleModel

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Senior Member

05-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzenj Tha Great View Post
S1) have your team kite and poke at them, don't let them engage a 4v5. Push the tower and take it until the other team realizes you're split pushing.
Yeah... this stuff usually happens fast. If you're on skype you can say, "play defensive while I push bottom, keep them busy".

In a public game, it's harder to communicate all that. If you think they might engage in a 4v5, sometimes I'm tempted to go help just to avoid the teamfight loss. But, if you know they'll be smart, pushing the tower is better.

Quote:
S2) don't force team fights, only engage when its 5v5. In this case, Split pushing will win you the game, keeping those 3 away from each other will be priority. BUY WARDS and see if u can catch one of them off guard, when one is down--push. Counter pushing is the way to go as well as split pushing...also did i mention, buy wards?
Yeah, we tried that. They were faster than us and also had wards. So if we split up, they could be there faster than we were.

I always buy wards, even if it's better for someone else to do it (because they usually don't, even when you ask them to)

Quote:
S3) You're building WW the wrong way.................zzz
I play Kog, not WW, but I was thinking of champs who actually CAN focus down tanks pretty well if given a chance, so I mentioned WW.

Sometimes it's actually NICE to focus down Rammus and have him out of the teamfight where he can't stun or taunt. It's just a question of whether you can do it fast enough based on their defense types.

Thanks.


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YourRoleModel

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Senior Member

05-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by KniForz View Post
Here's my two cents:

Scenario 1 : It depends on your champion I would say. If it is a good pusher, I would continue pushing the lane to draw back one/two enemies to give your team the advantage. Because even if you want to join them, the time you get there, there's a good chance the team fight will be over. If they initiate at 4v5, Then I would say THEY are doing the wrong thing.

Scenario 2: You're getting outplayed. It happens, play the best you can then move on to the next game.

Scenario 3: Usually, I never tower dive a dps unless I'm 100% to get the kill. A low health DPS/carry won't come back to the fight. If he/she does get healed, the fight should be over or close to be over.



When people complains too much I started using this trick " ignore /all".
That works like a charm. Play your game. Get concentrated and do the best you can.
Yeah... I agree with all of this, including that we were just getting outplayed by a combo we weren't well equiped to fight. (they had wards, they were faster than us, so even when we did what you suggest and had our own wards, it just made them have a slight advantage instead of a huge one)

Are you a good player? It sounds like I do all of these things you suggest as best as I'm able, and I'm 15+ games over .500 with over 300 wins and solid understanding of most champs.

I'm not "great" but I'm far from "a useless noob who should uninstall".

It sucks to be trying your best from a level of experience and reasonable intelligence and still be eating insults over it.

I should use the ignore option more often but even better I'm hoping that the tribunal finally brings some pain to the non-stop griefers. (and not just the worst offenders who say racist stuff but the truly arrogant, negative, insulting elitists who populate so many games)


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Tha Dynamite

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Senior Member

05-26-2011

Scenario 1:
Depends on a couple of things.
Such as a) how low on HP is that tower. If you are pushing but you know you can't take down the tower, then join the fight.
If you aren't a good auto-attacker and its early game, then join the fight.
But honestly, if there was a large scale team fight in mid and you're on a side lane, there is absolutely no reason you shouldn't join them unless you have one other person against you in your lane that is able to push very hard.
If the fight has already started and you're still only considering going, you're already in the wrong.

Scenario 2:
All those champions are AP. If they are the core of the danger, its not very difficult to buy counters for them.
Also, if there is a good Morde on their team, get your squishies to buy a QSS to cleanse his ultimate. Its very, very cheap but game-changing.

Scenario 3:
If you're Kog'Maw, you're the team's carry. If their carry is only running and doing no damage, the fact that you're still there means you're going to be doing your job and hes not. If you waste time chasing, then you're not doing your job. Chasing is left for the Poppys, Kassadins and Akalis, not a ranged carry.
And MANY times, getting a kill is NOT the best decision. I'd rather let all of them escape with 1 HP and be able to push a tower or two than lose a couple of my own teammates trying to kill someone at 1 HP.


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YourRoleModel

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Senior Member

05-26-2011

Quote:
Such as a) how low on HP is that tower. If you are pushing but you know you can't take down the tower, then join the fight.
If you aren't a good auto-attacker and its early game, then join the fight.
But honestly, if there was a large scale team fight in mid and you're on a side lane, there is absolutely no reason you shouldn't join them unless you have one other person against you in your lane that is able to push very hard.
I've been in a scenario where I saw a teamfight about to erupt mid and I went to help.. only to be told I don't know how to play and should have kept pushing my tower (because the team wasn't going to initiate anyway).

I've been in a scenario where I saw a teamfight about to erupt mid and I used the opportunity to push, only to be told I don't know how to play and should have joined the team fight.

Note that neither situation resulted in a bad beat for our team, and, both games were victories.

The only common thread is, no matter what I choose to do in a debatable situation, someone is going to grief about it. Maybe that's why this game is LoL...


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Etherimp

Senior Member

05-26-2011

Firstly, ignore in-game trolls and whiners who just complain about everything. As far as I can tell they exist at just about every level of play in Solo Queue. Sounds like half of your problem is allowing your own team to get to you. If people are raging, just ask them, "Do you want to win or complain? If you want to win, let's work together."

Scenerio one, as said above: If you have a decent pushing champ (Say, Hiemer, Morde, Sivir, Yi..an AD carry with high attack speed?), I would push the tower. Towers stay down all game and give your entire team 150g. Champions respawn and only give 1 person ~300... If, however, you're playing a Support, or an AP Carry, or a Tank, you should definitely be involved in the team fight. Let someone better suited for pushing/backdooring take the tower. Communicate this to your team. "I'm coming mid to help teamfight.. Master Yi, go backdoor this tower?". Normally if they see you have a minion wave coming and the tower is even relatively damaged, they will be happy to oblige.


Scenerio 2: Any combo with 2 tanky dps and a support is going to be a pain in the ass to deal with. I agree with what was said above about splitting them up by backdooring and pushing towers. NONE of those champs are a nightmare when alone... They aren't "easy" to take down, but when they are together the problem is compounded. Try to isolate Mordekaiser. He's easy to take down if caught alone and away from minion waves.

But, assuming you have tried that and they are just outplaying you, there's really no "good" solution. Sometimes getting outplayed happens and all you can do is learn from it and move on.

Scenerio 3: My friends and I have a rule that we constantly repeat among one another: NEVER CHASE. Chasing 1 low hp opponent is never a good idea beyond a certain point. If you have an Anti Carry like Nocturn or TF, Vayne, or have Karthus who can drop an Ult, then GREAT! Use those to finish off low HP opponents. But otherwise, it's almost never worth it to chase. Just consider that person "out of the team fight", and switch targets to the next squishiest opponent. By the low hp opponent running away you have turned it into 4v5, which means it's expotentially easier to take down the next opponent.

Announce a kill order based on threat, squishiness, and escape abilities. Vayne, for example, would be a priority target because she can unload a lot of burst damage but has 0 escapes and is extremely squishy (usually). Ashe would be a little less priority, seeing as she can kite you more easily than Vayne.

Obviously you want to adjust these kill orders based on who is the most disruptive. Master Yi if he's fed is incredibly disruptive to a team without CC and a lot of squishies.. If you have 1 tank with hard CC and Thornmail, Master Yi becomes much less disruptive and can be prioritized differently.


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paShadoWn

Senior Member

05-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by YourRoleModel View Post
Scenario 2:
You're in a team fight vs some tough to kill champs. Let's say Morde, Poppy, and Zilean are the core of the danger. Zilean is hanging back, and to get to him means running a gauntlet of damage. Morde is pretty tanky and dies slowly and is saving is ult. Poppy is kind of squishy but if you attack her, she just ults your lowest damage output and then face-rolls. Even if you do get an advantage, Zilean is speeding and ulting the champ you're focusing.

How do you approach that fight?

I was in that situation the other night and no matter who we focused, or if we switched, or if we backed off and tried to initiate elsewhere... nothing worked. With Zilean's ult, Morde having a GA, morde's ghost, Poppy becoming impossible to kill the closer to death she is, etc... what is the right thing to do?

I suggested everyone getting BVs to at least make it tougher for them. We tried basically everything in different fights while our Lux raged at us for being useless.

Is there some really obvious approach to easily wrecking that combo (and they were played well and carefully) that in 700 games of LOL I've never come across?

A few times we were able to angle out Zilean and take him out but, they were pretty good players and didn't usually let this happen.
Ahaha FOOLS
The "really obvious approach" is not fight it.
But, i suspect you happen to be one of those who "group up push mid" on rift and "go for fb" on tt. Known as "stupid feeder". After all that sequence of babbling ceases in your head, if it ever does... now tell me, how much kills they racked on you trying to "wreck" that trio? And before that? if you remember.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KniForz View Post
Scenario 2: You're getting outplayed. It happens, play the best you can then move on to the next game.
Yea. Surrender a.s.a.p., forget it and go feed next game. It just... just happens, dude. Fact of life. Nothing is possible to do about it, forget it. FORGET IT.


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w3ak

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Senior Member

05-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by paShadoWn View Post
Ahaha FOOLS
The "really obvious approach" is not fight it.
But, i suspect you happen to be one of those who "group up push mid" on rift and "go for fb" on tt. Known as "stupid feeder". After all that sequence of babbling ceases in your head, if it ever does... now tell me, how much kills they racked on you trying to "wreck" that trio? And before that? if you remember.
Yea. Surrender a.s.a.p., forget it and go feed next game. It just... just happens, dude. Fact of life. Nothing is possible to do about it, forget it. FORGET IT.
It's funny because you are one of those trolls that this thread specifically refers to. There is no helpful information in your post, just insults based on poorly made assumptions.

Better not fight their team when they are attacking your turrets! Great idea! Defending is so passe...


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