AP kog Maw

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seerieislee

Member

05-26-2011

ASPD might be better for team fights after the laneing process but when your e and r do enough to make them back up instead of choosing to close the gap you become a powerful pusher. Otherwise they will get close enough land 1 cc and drop you like a rock. And when you do go ap that ult during a team fight can go to 400-500 to 3-4 champs, because you have the magic pen also. If you have no mpen then cut that in half each shot if that. basically the thing that makes it viable for team fights is your aoe's do 2-3x the damage that they would have if you went aspd.


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Fluffyburrito

Senior Member

05-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by seerieislee View Post
ASPD might be better for team fights after the laneing process but when your e and r do enough to make them back up instead of choosing to close the gap you become a powerful pusher. Otherwise they will get close enough land 1 cc and drop you like a rock. And when you do go ap that ult during a team fight can go to 400-500 to 3-4 champs, because you have the magic pen also. If you have no mpen then cut that in half each shot if that. basically the thing that makes it viable for team fights is your aoe's do 2-3x the damage that they would have if you went aspd.
E and R will not do enough damage to make an entire enemy team back up. That's pretty ridiculous. As stated (and mathmatized if you want to get technical) the ratios of Kog's skills are so small AP barely adds damage. Magic pen/AS builds are a lot more effective. Kog's ult is not viable enough in a teamfight to be a reliable killer. You think it's better because it splashes? Sure, if the enemy team just clumps up together, which is very rare, you can hit them all for 400 damage. By time you get your 3rd ult off that won't do any damage an AS/MP kog maw with madred's will have someone dead. If you're too afraid to learn how to position yourself and build Koggy as someone who could do enough damage to carry a team then you're picking the wrong champion.


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seerieislee

Member

05-26-2011

was more refering to the laneing process when its 2vs 2 or even 2vs1. you can keep them from even trying to come after you.


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Fluffyburrito

Senior Member

05-26-2011

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Originally Posted by seerieislee View Post
was more refering to the laneing process when its 2vs 2 or even 2vs1. you can keep them from even trying to come after you.
Kog Maw should never be in a 1v2 lane to begin with. He's so squishy that if one of those two champs he's against has cc they can just tower dive him.


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Narvuntien

Senior Member

05-26-2011

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Originally Posted by Fluffyburrito View Post
Kog Maw should never be in a 1v2 lane to begin with. He's so squishy that if one of those two champs he's against has cc they can just tower dive him.
First game as AP kog against people.... was a 1 v 2 lane.... Panth (tower diver extraordinaire) and Teemo.... I was 1/2/2, our jungler 3/0/1..... I improved from there though ending with 14/9/19... which was fairly good compared to the rest of my team.... my CS was a little low to start with since it was a tough lane.

I have seen MF's go AP btw.

If Ap is good early then I wont have a problem, since I have casters runes..that have a lot of AP in them.

AD shaco is better than AP I know that to.. but guess what people still play AP Shaco, there is a reason they do that... that reason being they prefer to play like that and it works for them.

Up until now I have only played Casters, so playing Kog like a Caster suits my prefered play style. If I can actually be more effective as Mage Maw than Madreds Maw.... then it doesn't matter how much more damage I could potentially do as Madreds Maw.... if I just don't know how to think like a ranged carry and keep getting myself killed!


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Fluffyburrito

Senior Member

05-26-2011

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Originally Posted by Narvuntien View Post
First game as AP kog against people.... was a 1 v 2 lane.... Panth (tower diver extraordinaire) and Teemo.... I was 1/2/2, our jungler 3/0/1..... I improved from there though ending with 14/9/19... which was fairly good compared to the rest of my team.... my CS was a little low to start with since it was a tough lane.

I have seen MF's go AP btw.

If Ap is good early then I wont have a problem, since I have casters runes..that have a lot of AP in them.

AD shaco is better than AP I know that to.. but guess what people still play AP Shaco, there is a reason they do that... that reason being they prefer to play like that and it works for them.

Up until now I have only played Casters, so playing Kog like a Caster suits my prefered play style. If I can actually be more effective as Mage Maw than Madreds Maw.... then it doesn't matter how much more damage I could potentially do as Madreds Maw.... if I just don't know how to think like a ranged carry and keep getting myself killed!
Guessing it was in a normal game?

If AP is "good early" (and it's not the AP adding any damage, it adds nothing. The mana from tear letting you spam spells probably makes you think it's effective.) and horrible later with no benefit or damage, do you really think going AP is a good idea? AP shaco and AP miss fortune also add nothing to a team. You are essentially condemning a team to a 4v5 in every fight.

Playing carries as casters messes your team up. It doesn't matter if it is "comfortable to you."


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seerieislee

Member

05-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluffyburrito View Post
Kog Maw should never be in a 1v2 lane to begin with. He's so squishy that if one of those two champs he's against has cc they can just tower dive him.
odds are against that even with the cc, if you are constantly pressuring they won't have full health and you will have near full health... at best one dies one survives. oh hai! teleport back and hardly any good was done from it.


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Lorifel

Senior Member

05-27-2011

Have you tried Clairvoyance on Ult-oriented KogMaw? It is a very good spell for preventing ganks and gives you endless opportunities for long-range artillery strikes.


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Narvuntien

Senior Member

05-27-2011

well my attempt at on hit Kog didn't go so well :S... I felt pretty useless untill I had Madreds. I guess I have to rush it as my third item after Tear and Sorc shoes.


AP kog feels almost Support rather than Carry... I rack up assists and remove most of the opponents Hp from a long way away, slow with Rylais


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

05-27-2011

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Originally Posted by Lorifel View Post
Have you tried Clairvoyance on Ult-oriented KogMaw? It is a very good spell for preventing ganks and gives you endless opportunities for long-range artillery strikes.
Or for 40 mana you can just hit every bush you get near, and not need the Clairvoyance at all.

In my opinion - IF you are going to build him AP, you should STILL build Madred's Bloodrazor. After that, I don't care what AP items you build as long as it includes Nashor's Tooth.

No matter what your build, W will always be one of your largest damage sources throughout the ENTIRE game. Ignoring that fact is foolish.

With Madred's, Nashor's, MPen, and AP - you can easily add 4% to W, giving you 14% on-hit when including with Madred's. This is a substantial flat %, and unless the enemy stacks MR, it will continue to hurt no matter how long the game goes. Straight AP doesn't give you that kind of scaling, 10% at best and without the attack speed to support it. I support Nashor's because W is such a reliable source of damage, only having it down for 3 seconds is paramount to being an effective carry for your team.

15 x .6 (40% CDR) = 9 second cooldown, while it's active for 6 seconds. 3 seconds of downtime.

Also, if you're going to build straight AP - why not use a caster that can do it better? A caster with 1) Long range skill shots, 2) High AP ratios, and 3) Low cooldowns. Examples being Malzahar, Brand, Gragas, etc.

Kog's skill set is fantastic for what he does, but an AP nuker he is not. R is a fantastic ability, but it simply doesn't have the killing power or reliability of a caster that has a 3-4 shot lockdown combo to ensure a kill. He can only poke away, and HOPE his target eats the hits. Investing in W is nearly guaranteed damage, with Q, E, and R to supplement it and ensure the kill.

Also, after your Madred's/Nashor's, you may see that the enemy is stacking MR. Would you continue to stack AP items? You could possible go for Void Staff... or, since you have all this AS, build some AD and crit and rip them from both sides. I enjoy his flexibility.