Teemo Remake - Change him from pure rdps to support/utility/debuffer?

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Zeta

Senior Member

03-19-2010

Teemo's long list of problems taken from another topic:


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He's got 3 passives of questionable use. His only really solid moves are his Q and R. He's very unpolished. He's fun, but he needs a remake. Mostly he needs something to contribute in team-fights, and perhaps a little more map control/vision buff of some kind.
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Sivir, Ashe, Nidalee all have a wider variety of skills (and the skills they have are better than Teemo's) and better aoe, burst, and sustainability.
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Dots in this game right now, if they do not come with healing reduction, are only useful in killing fleeing enemies who have no heal.

Basically, Teemo can play clean-up crew, but not actually participate well in any fight that involves more than himself and one enemy.
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More often, when you run into plant shrooms during a teamfight, a good mage with just CC you and instagib you.
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It depends on the mage. If you're talking about Anivia, Fiddle, or Annie, then yes - they do have that good CC.

And while Banshee's Veil is nice, rushing into a team is just going to get it popped. And it might not always be with the spell you want blocked.

You can plant the mushrooms ahead of the fight and hope someone walks into them, but if the fight doesn't move and stays mostly stationary, you're not contributing much.

And you know, a smart player can just by Oracle and farm your mushrooms.

Basically, Teemo's usefulness decreases exponentially for every mage the enemy team has and increases for every melee character the team has.
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It seems like Teemo's attack damage simply isn't that high, and he thrives on using his skills. Luckily, KI+Shunpo gives me just about as much immunity from his attack as his blind against me. Once I'm toe to toe with the little bugger..well, I think he's allergic to knives.
I don't think he was ever meant to be a full carry. He's equipped for hit and run tactic, and he's more of a support DPS--good CCs, pretty good survivability, and great scouting ability. Oh wait--he's a bloody scout, that's why.
Teemo needs a remake, and I think the way to go with him might be to give him more debuffs. It gives him a fairly unique role not filled by many other characters in the game. It gives him a solid role in teamfights (enter the battle, lay some debuffs, gtfo), and it would actually make him a Champion who used more than Q and R.

So this is the idea I've been toying with:

Blinding Dart - Keep it the same.
Noxious Trap - Keep it the same.
Move Quick - Ditch camouflage, it's a joke. Make Move Quick his passive.

Toxic Shot
Passive: Teemo's basic attacks poison their target for 8 / 14 / 21 / 28 / 35 (+0.15 per ability power) magical damage each second for 5 seconds.

Active: Teemo's Toxic shot becomes more powerful for 10 seconds. It lasts for 7 seconds instead of 5 and reduces reduces healing and health regeneration by 50%.

Spell Stats
Cooldown
45 seconds

Cost
50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 Mana

Range 1

Scout's Bounty (Replaces Move Quick as active)

Teemo marks an enemy with special tree sap, causing it to smell awful and lower their defenses.

Reveals the target for 12 seconds. Champion armor and magic resistance is reduced by 20/25/30/35/40% for the duration. Teemo gains 3 / 5 / 7 / 9 / 11 extra gold if the target is killed with the debuff on them.

Spell Stats
Cooldown
22 Seconds

Cost
60/75/90/105/120 Mana

Range
600

This turns Teemo into the go-to support Champion for debuffs, which is a niche that has not yet been filled.


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Arai Kitsune

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Senior Member

03-19-2010

He was never a ranged DPS. But yeah, I agree with this. One thing I'd change, change the ctive of toxic shot to be an AoE cone that also possibly applies this healing reduction, possibly at a lower rate to compensate if need be.

It's really kind of funny, Riot seemed to genuinely want this champion to be physical, judging by the reccomende ditems and all the AP nerfs over time, but he really isn't meant to be that by his skillset. I still run into people who think he's an awesome physical carry, probably because of people on the forum listing him as one.

I really wish Riot would listen to remake slike this though, I mean, it's mostly common sense, switch his passive, give him his olt ultimate in a regular skill form, give toxic shot an active, he's good to go.

Edit: Wow, some **** had the nerve to downrate your post. Fixed.


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Zeta

Senior Member

03-19-2010

He makes an OK but not horrible ranged DPS. He's definitely the worst DPS in the game, but he's not really queue-dodge worthy bad.


The problem with an AP build is that poison is worthless if the enemy can outheal it and his Mushrooms depend on your enemies tromping into them.

Also, another big problem with AP Teemo is that even if you buy a lot of AP items, old mushrooms that have been set down don't get the AP bonus. Which leads to very uneven performance.


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Arai Kitsune

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Senior Member

03-19-2010

I've said it before, I'll say it again, DPS Soraka is just as good as DPS Teemo. If I were to queue dodge a DPS Teemo, it isn't just because he's bad at it. It's also because, I find DPS teemo's don't know how to utilize Teemo's strengths, and often aren't very good at the game in general, bad awareness, stand around a lot, just right click and hope they kill something, the same kind of a lack of skills you see from people who only play dps champions.

In all my time playing this game, I've only ever seen one competent AS Teemo. He could react as fast as I could with his various skills had good mushroom placement, understood his range and speed as well as positioning, all the things that define a good Teemo player.

Now yes, it is dissapointing to have them outheal my poison, but I play more of a supporting bursty role, helping to blind carries and take down primary threats in teamfights, damage is not Teemo's forte, regardless of your build. The recent debuff splitting is a massive buff to his mushrooms, people actually die to them occasionally now, but the ability to farm them for gold is still a problem.

One suggestion I had was to make it so that stealth detection permanently reveals shrooms once spotted, but they cannot be destroyed, so you instead need to learn to avoid them, rather than getting gold and countering an ultimate that hard. Fixing the AP problem would be a good thing as well, that and the levels, if I'm not mistaken, do not update. If they can make Cho'Gath's feats update, why not Teemo's shrooms?


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Zeta

Senior Member

03-19-2010

Quote:
I've said it before, I'll say it again, DPS Soraka is just as good as DPS Teemo. If I were to queue dodge a DPS Teemo, it isn't just because he's bad at it. It's also because, I find DPS teemo's don't know how to utilize Teemo's strengths, and often aren't very good at the game in general, bad awareness, stand around a lot, just right click and hope they kill something, the same kind of a lack of skills you see from people who only play dps champions.

In all my time playing this game, I've only ever seen one competent AS Teemo. He could react as fast as I could with his various skills had good mushroom placement, understood his range and speed as well as positioning, all the things that define a good Teemo player.

Now yes, it is dissapointing to have them outheal my poison, but I play more of a supporting bursty role, helping to blind carries and take down primary threats in teamfights, damage is not Teemo's forte, regardless of your build. The recent debuff splitting is a massive buff to his mushrooms, people actually die to them occasionally now, but the ability to farm them for gold is still a problem.

One suggestion I had was to make it so that stealth detection permanently reveals shrooms once spotted, but they cannot be destroyed, so you instead need to learn to avoid them, rather than getting gold and countering an ultimate that hard. Fixing the AP problem would be a good thing as well, that and the levels, if I'm not mistaken, do not update. If they can make Cho'Gath's feats update, why not Teemo's shrooms?
I think with the armor debuff and healing reduction, he'd make a good soft support character. You'd still probably want some AS items on him, but he'd be more suited to be a hit and run style Champion who happens to use AD well instead of a gimped carry. The mushrooms updating would make AP not totally horrible on him.

He'd feel more like Gangplank - support/DPS hybrid that doesn't have to right click someone dead to contribute to the game.

When I play Teemo, I usually get Mejais and then DPS with focus on lifesteal. It works out well, unless there are absolutely no DPS on the enemy team, in which case I become useless.


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Arai Kitsune

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Senior Member

03-19-2010

When I play, I pick up some survivability, since that's somethign Teemo really lacks. I usually pick up a deathfire grasp, then a rod of ages, glacial shroud, occasionally a rylai's if I feel it's worth it, abyssal scepter/banshee's veil against casters, and if I need more damage a Lichbane or Zonhya's, depending on the situation. My old beta build was basically pure AP, but since then I've changed it so that I can actually survive.

My old build was like, two kages lucky picks, sheen, rylai's, lichbane, then replace them picks with a zonhya's and an abyssal scepter. Would get up to around 600 or more AP, and with runes and baron, would go over 700. Was kind of funny then, but you can't pull off stuff like tat anymore.


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Doddsy

Junior Member

03-19-2010

Actually, I think Teemo is quite overpowered, almost every game I get rushed in the beginning, and playing as Teemo I shoot a "Blinding Dart" at them, shoot a few posionous darts, and they die...
Later in game IF you have the correct build, you can take on 1-2 guys at a time and with your team around you can easily take out an entire lane of towers in your later levels! Although I will admit he is a bit squishy, if he gets you with a "Blinding Dart" and gets you a few times with his poisonous darts you are most likely going to die unless you have "Heal" as a skill, or are a tank with much defense/health.


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tsumeone

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Senior Member

03-20-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeta View Post
Move Quick - Ditch camouflage, it's a joke. Make Move Quick his passive.
I completely agree with this. A champion labeled "The Swift Scout" with such lame starting movement speed is stupid. Right now the "move quick" ability feels more like the devs ran out of ideas and had to fill a slot as an afterthought. It should really be his passive ability and replaced with something useful like what you mentioned.


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Kamikaze Koala

Junior Member

03-20-2010

I read half the starting post and stopped reading because this is starting on a false premise that A. Characters that are meant for draft mode are bad, and B. That teemo isn't already a support/utility/debuffer.

All the reasons you stated that teemo needs a rework are reasons I love playing him. He contributes OK damage in team fights built correctly, disables a physical carry for 4 seconds, and can chase down and DOT fleeing champions. His mushrooms are amazing for scouting and woods control. Could use a passive change though....

EDIT AFTER READING POST

ALL THIS BEING SAID: This would be an interesting change, and I like the not being able to destroy mushrooms thing when stealth detected. You can still purposely hit them and heal though or Morgana/Sivir/Janna farm. This change would make AP/Mix Teemo make sense instead of something fun to accomplish something that can be done better by other champions

I have had some fun games as AP Teemo, but the whole mushroom farming and difficulty to actually make mushrooms work in team fights sometimes makes teemo useless mid game, and, as any AP character, he gets dramatically weaker as the game stretches into end game.

I also agree that the whole full support dubuff role has not been filled which is a fun and important role


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Sekara

Member

03-20-2010

Please, Please don't change him! He's fine like he is.
Teemo is my most played character. I really enjoy playing him and he's really balanced. He has a really good poisen, a blind shot, mushrooms and a speed boost. It all is like it should be.

He can lane everywhere and can go Shroom/poisen ap, Phys dps or debuff. He has many variations and everyone can play him as he want. He is a perfect hybrid char, supporting team. So why should he get changed? There is just no point in it. My scores are way over negative and i win mostly, but He's defently not op cause some characters cancel him.

Means, he DOESN'T need a remake.