[Discussion] AP vs AD Ezreal

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Vindeen

Senior Member

03-22-2010

Okay i am tired of saying that ezrael have mana problems with AP build, he dont.

I play with a offensive build with clarity/exhaust.

I get sapphire crystal with 2 health pots and solo mid. I can pretty much spam my W when I hit lvl 3 and still dont run out of mana.

My build is Ss/boots/Sheen/lichbane and that is pretty much what you need to rape faces. Q ability will proc off lichbane(not sure if its a bug or not, but when you use your Q it will trigger the affect of lichbane so Q does about 400 dmg).


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yiw1vKKA7Kn5uYUB

Junior Member

03-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godsend 23 View Post
I don't think that's how TF works. If it does work that way, then my calculations for AD ezzy i have would be even lower...
It does work that way.

And to the subject: AD Ez is just wrong. Yes you can carry a bit with him, but seriously, most other champs can do it better.


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waxxdd

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Senior Member

03-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindeen View Post
Q ability will proc off lichbane(not sure if its a bug or not, but when you use your Q it will trigger the affect of lichbane so Q does about 400 dmg).
It's not a bug. Lich Bane's effect is considered physical damage and your Q ability is considered physical damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindeen View Post
i am tired of saying that ezrael have mana problems with AP build, he dont.
I disagree with you here. He will have mana problems with AD and AP. You solve the issue by using clarity, I do not want to waste a summoner spell. Usually I will only have mana problems about mid game, where endgame I don't notice low mana. And early game I play conservatively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaPala View Post
It does work that way.

And to the subject: AD Ez is just wrong. Yes you can carry a bit with him, but seriously, most other champs can do it better.
Man, knowing this there is no benefit to play AD over a Lich Bane Ezzy. I'll update my statistics, thanks for the info. I think Ez is too soft to play as a carry, you cannot take 3 hits before you're down. If you want to be a soft carry and have high burst, play as Ryze.

I have a question regarding Guinsoo's Rageblade. When I have the item and use my Mystic Shot, it will add two stacks to the Rageblade, three if I hit a target. I can't figure out why it's doing it.


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chumbler

Senior Member

03-22-2010

I suppose it's to be expected, but man people are defensive about their choice of AD or AP. There is no real right answer to the question, you have to look at the pros and cons of each and evaluate which suits you, your team, and the enemy team.

AD Pros:
-Strong early game due to better Q
-Items are overall cheaper
-Power increases pretty consistently, leaving few to no weak periods
-Good at harassment because Q is cheap and hits hard
-Cheap snare if you get a frozen mallet
-Less dependent on kills
-Higher autoattack damage (helps for tower crunching)

AD Cons:
-Slightly lower survivability
-Lower peak damage
-Weaker W, E, R (W still buffs/debuffs fine, but will be less able to reverse a team fight, R can still more or less clear a built up creep wave)
-A lot of AD items have stats that are kind of wasted on Ezreal (crit, crit damage, arguably attack speed)

AP Pros:
-Capable of putting out a lot more damage/healing
-Slightly better survivability
-Stronger late game due to scaling
-W alone can turn around a team fight

AP Cons:
-Extremely weak early game
-Nearly useless Q for most of the game
-Items are very expensive
-Power increases inconsistently, leaving extended weak periods
-Highly reliant on kills for funding, due to more difficult farming
-Weaker against towers
-If the other team shuts you down your team is more or less down a man

I may have overlooked one or two things, but those are the pros and cons of each as I see them. You may have noticed in my list a slight bias toward AD, which I'll admit because the build being safer and better in the early game appeals more to me. That said, the sheer difference in power between a fully kitted out AP build and a full AD build is big. If the game goes long enough AP really outperforms AD, but it's a much bigger gamble. If things don't go as planned on AP your team is more or less down a man.


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waxxdd

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Senior Member

03-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
AD Pros:
-Strong early game due to better Q
-Items are overall cheaper
You can level your Q first for AP if you want, leaving them similar damage. I find it doesn't do much damage anyways, at least early game, until you get some items. I don't know which is cheaper, let's compare. Here is my AP items when I become effective: Guinsoo's, Sorcerer's Shoes, Lich Bane. Price: 6805. Or if I have a good start I will do: Mejai's Soulstealer, Sorcerer's Shoes, Lich Bane. Price: 5805


Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
AP Pros:
-Capable of putting out a lot more damage/healing
-Slightly better survivability
-Stronger late game due to scaling
-W alone can turn around a team fight
Don't these pros outweigh AD pros? The overall goal is winning, is it not? And Ez is not a tower taking champion, although he is helpful for taking towers/inhibs with his attack speed buff on allies. And to your points, I think has a weak early game no matter which route you take. He really shines mid game with his heals as you mention and is even stronger late game.


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chumbler

Senior Member

03-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godsend 23 View Post
You can level your Q first for AP if you want, leaving them similar damage. I find it doesn't do much damage anyways, at least early game, until you get some items. I don't know which is cheaper, let's compare. Here is my AP items when I become effective: Guinsoo's, Sorcerer's Shoes, Lich Bane. Price: 6805. Or if I have a good start I will do: Mejai's Soulstealer, Sorcerer's Shoes, Lich Bane. Price: 5805




Don't these pros outweigh AD pros? The overall goal is winning, is it not? And Ez is not a tower taking champion, although he is helpful for taking towers/inhibs with his attack speed buff on allies. And to your points, I think has a weak early game no matter which route you take. He really shines mid game with his heals as you mention and is even stronger late game.
To be honest I go back and forth on leveling Q early even in an AD build (usually I somewhat prioritize E then alternate Q and W with a slight priority on Q for an AD build, getting R of course when possible. I might pump W more if the situation calls for it.) An AP build doesn't gain a whole lot by building up Q early, since it only adds 20 damage per level, I think, apart from the cooldown. While the cooldown is nice, in the early game of harassment and farming it isn't of too much benefit, especially if you're being conservative with mana (likewise if you blew all your mana the lower cooldown won't matter.) What I mean by AD having the better Q is that every item you buy in an AD build boosts Q, while an AP build will have a bad Q (either low damage or too expensive early game) until you get a lichbane, which takes a while unless you get a lot of lucky kills.

As for my AD build, I still haven't really settled on one, but I typically go something like chalice, boots 1, brutalizer, sheen, phage, boots 3, trinity. I don't have prices in front of me, but ballpark I think this comes out to a little over 7000. Past that I usually throw in a rageblade, BF, frozen mallet, or some survivability item. I've been experimenting with dropping the chalice and getting brutalizer, sheen, or phage first, but haven't decided yet. By the time I get the sheen I'm already fairly dangerous and can farm easily, as well as being a credible threat to towers (if there is something I can hit with spells nearby.) This build is probably far from optimal for AD, but my point is for more or less the same price I get a few more items, and I don't have an extended period where my damage suffers due to lack of lichbane or damage/AP in general. I generally am not confident enough to get snowball items, but a sword of the occult can add a lot of damage.

I am by no means saying that AP is a weak build. If the game goes long enough or you get enough kills, AP is the better way to go (it is helpful that there is decent overlap in both builds and you can get runes and masteries that work for both.) Its greater late game power does overshadow its cons if the situation arises, however since you can't count on that it's not really a safe bet. Also don't underestimate his tower killing ability. If you time it right so that you hit a tower at the same time an enemy creep wave gets there, high attack damage combined with a 75% attack speed boost will chew through it pretty quick. Couple this with Ezreal's good escape abilities and he is a reasonable threat in hit and runs. Sure he can't backdoor like TF, but who can?

Anyway, the long and short of it as I see it is AD is for short, close games, AP is for long or steamroll games.


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13lackC4t

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Senior Member

03-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
AP Cons:
-Extremely weak early game
-Nearly useless Q for most of the game
Wait what?
Don't know what kind of Ezraels you've seen, but max Essence Shift is pure rape early game.
And depending on how well you're doing, AP Ezraels can easily do more damage with their Q skill.

Apart from that, pretty much agreed.


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Ti 84 Plus

Senior Member

03-22-2010

there Q skill is completly dependent on ad damage. base damage + bonus. ap does not factor into it


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Vydelar

Senior Member

03-22-2010

Ti 84, the majority of AP builds run Lichbane so when they get that it does factor into it, since Q will activate and use the Lichbane buff immediately.

On a curious thought though, considering how confusing Ezreal is, has any high skilled person (obviously more than me) considered grabbing both mejai's and occult, and see where it goes? One game earlier, I was bored and grabbed all three snowball items, and chain-chugged potions every time they wore off. Yeah, the Leviathan probably wouldn't have been as good as just having a warmog's but the game ended with 10+ stacks on each. Would it be viable to run both AD and AP snowball items mid-late game, given at least an even situation? And if so, what would you consider for your other 4 slots?


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Dafrekknpope

Member

03-22-2010

I see AD Ezreal as being the most useful in most situations, his Q ability scales wonderfully with AD and his other abilities can help set up kills without building AP.

Runes-
Red - armor pen. x9
Blue - Mp5/level x9
Yellow - hp/level x9 (or dodge whatever suits you)
Quint - Flat HP x3 ( Ezreal's hp base is really low, and as I play mid a lot, getting a nice starting hp helps.

Masteries -
OFFENSIVE
Cripple 1/1
Archmage's savvy 3/3
Sorcery 4/4
Burning Embers 1/1
Archaic Knowledge 1/1
Sunder 3/3
Offensive Mastery 1/2
Brute Force 3/3
Lethality 3/3
Havoc 1/1

DEFENSIVE none

UTILITY
Good Hands 1/3
Perseverance 3/3
Awareness 4/4
Meditation 1/3

Summoner Spells -
Exhaust, great if you use on the other carry in team fight and unleash your ulti on the target of it right afterwards, it will do almost full damage and give you high attack speed from passive.
Ignite gives Ezreal an AMAZING chance of attaining first blood since his mystic shot and passive already deal good damage early.

Starting Items -
Meki Pendant
2 HP potions

Once you get enough, its best to recall and pick up a Chalice Of Harmony to get good mana regen and magic resist. For boots I usually go Boots Of Swiftness, as Ezreal has a slow base movement speed and it works well for chasing with his E.
After boots and chalice I pick up a Sheen and then a Phage for the slow on mystic shot, as well as the additional damage from sheen. I make those into a Trinity Force once I get enough gold.
This is where I usually make a situational decision, I either start building a Banshee's Veil if the enemy team is heavy in magic damage or just continue with AD items, such as Brutalizer, followed by a Bloodthirster.
End Game Items -
1. Chalice Of Harmony (can be replaced late game if you get golem buff often with another Bloodthirster.
2. Boots Of Swiftness
3. Trinity Force
4. Brutalizer (you can also go Last Whisper if you don't feel your passive to be giving enough attack speed)
5. Bloodthirster
6. Banshee's Veil or Bloodthirster

Skill Order -
1. Q
2. E
3. Q
4. W
5. Q
6. R
Proceed to max out Q and then his Arcane Shift (E) ability.
Q>E>W, and as usual take R whenever available.

As far as laning phase goes, I take middle lane if possible everytime. I focus on getting last hits with mystic shot and sometimes harassing my enemy if they step away from their minions, making themself an open target. When I get Mystic Shot to rank 2 I generally can kill the enemy pretty fast if I can get into position with my E and Exhaust, Ignite them. While they are running (If they don't run then they are dead anyways) I spam my Mystic Shot ahead of them to avoid them dodging it and can usually net a kill.
Always remember when attacking turrets to continue using his Q on minions to keep his passive going, making you a turret-wrecking machine.

Mid/Late Game -
When Ezreal gets his ultimate he has very high burst damage capability. In 1v1 situations I begin with E and place myself in position to Exhaust. Ignite the enemy, after using both spells I aim my ulti to bring the enemy below 50% most of the time until late game, and continue using Mystic Shot on the chase to slow them and finish them off.
In team fights, my strategy, as Ezreal is a squishy champion, will change a bit. NEVER use his E ability to place yourself into the enemies hands in team fights. Like Tristana, if she uses this ability to hop in, your enemies are aware that you cannot use it to immediately back out without taking a considerable amount of damage, if not dying. I begin in the back of the pack, using my W to heal my team slightly and give an attack speed boost. Notice that this can also be used to debuff the enemy physical dps if they are in range of it. I try to be observant of which champion is causing a lot of the damage and if they are a phys. dps then I will Exhaust them and start casting my ulti if they are in sight to damage them greatly and receive 5 stacks from my passive to start the fight. Mystic Shot is AD Ezreal's best friend in a fight; it is his slow, his nuke, and his finisher (unless you didn't use his ult during the team fight in which case it is A GREAT FINSIHER). Also keep in mind that even if your team gains the advantage in a team fight, you are always a target, being a high dps, yet squishy champion.

This is the way I play Ezreal, The Prodigal Explorer. I hope this information was helpful, and I will be willing to answer any questions referring to Ezreal and/or my build.

--------------NOTE--------------
I DID get most of my knowledge of Ezreal from Phreak's Champion Spotlight, so if there are any references to his build in his video, I do not take credit for such information. However, I have spent plenty of time learning the champion and am quite happy with this build, as I have obtained 20+ kills in multiple games already. I have played him in about 20 games and have been successful in my ELO. For those who are curious I have 571 wins and 499 losses, so I may not be top 500, but I do have experience.