Magic Resist Vs. Armor stacking

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SyeBlaze

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Senior Member

03-17-2010

Alright, so I wrote this up at work. Been playing tank-mordekaiser, and I realized how often I try to figure out what I'll be wanting to stack at the loading screen.
So I wrote it down, and this is the system I came up with. Decided that the best thing to do would be to submit it to the forums to see if I can't get it improved (Numbers probably need to be tweaked for maximum effectiveness)


Here's how it works:
The more negative the final number, the more magic resistance you should be going for at the start of the game)
The more positive the final number, the more armor you want to try for at the start.

-10 is a full caster
+10 is a full DPS
0 is for a full tank or full hybrid

Take the enemy team, and add the numbers together. if it's high positive (+8 or more) go with armor stacking before Magic Res. Vice reverse for negative. Do a hybrid approach if it's 0.

Alistar: 0
Amumu: -1 (unless going towards caster gear, then rate at -4)
Anivia: -10
Annie: -10
Ashe: 9
Blitzcrank: -3
Cho'Gath: -2 (-6 if building towards AP)
Corki: -3 (however, usually built towards AD, which is threat 7. AP build is around -5)
Dr. Mundo: 3
Evelynn: -8
Ezreal: 0
Fiddlesticks: -10
Gangplank: 7
Gragas: -5
Heimer: -6
Janna: -1
Jax: 0
Karthus: -10
Kassadin: -10
Katarina: -7
Kayle: -2
Malphite: 0
Master Yi: 10
Mordekaiser: -2
Morgana: -7
Nasus: 5
Nidalee: 3
Nunu: -7
Pantheon: 9
Poppy: 5
Rammus: -2
Ryze: -10
Shaco: 9 (-4 if built AP)
Singed: -4
Sion: -5
Sivir: 8
Soraka: 0
Taric: 2
Teemo: 4
Tristana: 10
Tryndamere: 10
Twitch: 10
Udyr: 10
Veigar: -10
Warwick: 5
Zilean: -5

I am ALWAYS open to suggestions, especially since I just started the tanking biz since Mordekaiser came out, and I might have some of these relative numbers wrong (I've done this based on personal experience)

Let me know what I should change, and I will change it.

Please keep in mind that I am by no means top elo. As far as I can tell, I'm in the higher of the middle elo brackets. (That is, Above Average, but not yet pro)

So, what do you guys think?

Anything I missed/didn't think about?

Also note: I didn't provide reasonings about the numbers because I wanted to spawn criticism/discussion. Putting my reasoning into it would be counter-intuitive to this goal.

Edit 1: Changed Heimer from 0 to -2 due to Rocket damage being more common than turret damage.

Edit 2:
Changed Amumu to -1, with a note that a caster build will have a higher threat.
Changed Blitz to -3, as tanks (any tank) should be the last guy blitz will be grabbing. Still a threat, though.
Changed Cho'gath. He now has two threats, based on AP or Tank builds (instead of one)
Changed Corki's rating to note how a large amount of damage comes from magic.
changed janna to -1.
changed morgana to -7
Changed shaco to include an AP build (-4)
changed heimer to -6
Warwick changed to 5.


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AutoSponge

Senior Member

03-17-2010

Watch out for obscure builds like AP teemo, sivir, mundo, or DPS taric. There may be others.

However, the mords I fear the most are HP/hp5 stackers--the ones that have Warmogs/Force of Nature and Spirit Visage. They regen so fast, you can't kill them even 2v1. The longer you stand there, the more chance you give his team to arrive and faceroll ya.


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SyeBlaze

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Senior Member

03-17-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoSponge View Post
Watch out for obscure builds like AP teemo, sivir, mundo, or DPS taric. There may be others.

However, the mords I fear the most are HP/hp5 stackers--the ones that have Warmogs/Force of Nature and Spirit Visage. They regen so fast, you can't kill them even 2v1. The longer you stand there, the more chance you give his team to arrive and faceroll ya.
I tried to take build types into account when I built the list. Teemo isn't higher because I've seen several AP builds for him. Sivir does magic damage, and can be built AP, but you'll be making a winning bet 95% of the time that she's going to be physical.

AP Mundo is more rare. Taric is usually tank, but has + on DPS BECAUSE of DPS Taric.

Should I go more or less on these numbers?

Edit: Also, it's because I am one of the regen mordes that I made this guide :P

After you get your regen on, you need armor. Also, it's nice to choose whether to rush Warden or FoN first.


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suchocka

Junior Member

03-17-2010

Cool concept!

My only comment is that I'd have Heimer between -4 and -7 instead of 0. His missile and grenade deal magic dmg and hurt a lot early game.


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SyeBlaze

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Senior Member

03-17-2010

Updated. Heimer is now -2 due to rockets of doom.


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EasymodeX

Senior Member

03-17-2010

Quote:
Amumu: -3
Amumu's damage levels are irrelevant. Mord needs to optimize defense for high damage sources. As a result I would weight Amumu even lower, unless you notice the Amumu stacking magic damage.

Quote:
Blitzcrank: -6
Fist is physical. Blitz will rarely grab YOU (or should tbh). Hence, should be closer to 0.

Quote:
Cho'Gath: -4
Again, Cho'Gath in general should not be a major damage source. -2 or -3. -6 if Cho is stacking AP.

Quote:
Corki: 3
AP during early-mid, AD during mid-late.

Quote:
Heimer: -2
Heimer should be in the -6 range.

Quote:
Janna: -4
Janna's damage is largely irrelevant. Where it is, it is physical. I would go with -1 or so.
Quote:
Malphite: 0
Malphite's damage to Mord will be primarily magic. Just double check his inventory if he decides to build an IE. Generally I would rate as -2.

Quote:
Morgana: -10
Morgana's damage is only moderate unless she's stacking AP heavily. I would say -6.

Quote:
Shaco: 9
Unless it's AP Shaco. For several champs here you should list an "either or" rating, based on whether they are going AP or AD (or tank build).

Quote:
Udyr: 10
Udyr has a heavy portion of magic damage, unless they do Tiger/Bear/Turtle. I forget if the Tiger active is physical or magic damage. I would say his damage should be rated at 5.

Quote:
Warwick: 10
Warwick typically gets a Mandred, which does magic damage. I would rate Warwick as 5.


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SyeBlaze

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Senior Member

03-17-2010

I was hoping to make a more universal tool than just for Mordekaiser.

However, I will make some of those changes (especially the warwick one. Or perhaps modifiers.) However, I was also originally making this as a tool to decide a starting direction based on team makeup. However, this guide WOULD be more useful if it was built with the full game in mind. Time to re-tool.

edit: Re-tooled.

Gonna have to do some more research on some of the above suggestions, however.

Do JtiBs do magic? Does Heimer's Turrets to magic? and the Udyr question, too, as I've largely seen phys damage from him myself.

I'm gonna playtest this list a while and continue to make changes as necessary


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Reidan

Senior Member

03-17-2010

jitb and turrets are both magic and cannot be dodged


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Dr Dan

Senior Member

03-17-2010

very intersting, I think I'll make a little java app to help me do some quick calcs with these numbers :d


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Roffles

Junior Member

03-17-2010

This system doesn't really work in pugs because of the varying skill levels and playstyles. The only sure way, IMO, to find out what to stack is to observe fights and see what's doing the most damage. Besides, I don't even get any armor/MR until mid-game on most of my characters anyway.


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