AP Kassadin or DPS Kassadin Discussion

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EasymodeX

Senior Member

03-17-2010

Chalice looks gimp to me. With Kassadin's AP-competency, I would look into any flavor of AP item that also gives mana/mp5. Anywhere from Nashor to Catalyst to Sheen seems a better investment.

I would lean to a Doran's Ring to start with mp5 yellow runes (and mid tier Utility tree) to maintain mana/5, instead of Chalice. Chalice is nice, but the $ can be invested elsewhere (in this case, the Doran's/Catalyst) for greater raw HP and burst mana capacity.

Honestly the early Razor can be replaced by a HP pot and spamming your spells more while taking the golem. Edit: You do not have the attack speed at that point in your build to make Razor highly relevant.

Edit2: Chalice is more of a sustained mana item for a champ that doesn't use AP (Sivir or many tanks as examples).


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EchoRex

Senior Member

03-17-2010

Chalice is great with the near constant golem buff that you can enjoy with the razor, the combination gives a decent bit of survivability, a smidge of damage, and a ton of mana regen. Have tried the no razor approach a couple times, and even with only having ~0.8-1.0/sec it makes a very significant difference early/mid game in how long it takes to kill the golem and lizard, much less solo'ing the dragon.

But like I said, this is just whats currently working and still haven't settled on anything that seems perfect at all stages of the game. The Chalice I'm pretty I'm keeping just because I've always maintained a monopoly on the golem buff, and the combination of the two is more than enough mana, plus some needed mitigation.


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JunkRamen

Senior Member

03-17-2010

What does DPS Kassadin have that gives him higher mitigation than AP Kassadin? Either way, you're either relying on sustained auto-attack damage or hit-and-run; the former which is the OPPOSITE of survivability on someone as fragile as Kassadin, the latter which can be done just as well on AP Kassadin by building Lichbane.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

03-17-2010

On average, a DPS or Hybrid build is more apt to take items that have mitigation instead of HP, due to the items available and what their focus is for the build.

Though you can do any of them without taking any mitigation, nor taking any health. But it isn't really prevalent to do so.


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EasymodeX

Senior Member

03-18-2010

Quote:
On average, a DPS or Hybrid build is more apt to take items that have mitigation instead of HP, due to the items available and what their focus is for the build.
Mitigation is dandy for sustained combat, to augment your HP pool. Without an HP pool to augment, your marginal mitigation (and that's what the chalice and mandred's give you) is worthless. You have -zero- HP pumps in your build. It has no effective survivability compared to any regular AP build, and yet it puts you at greater risk, and demands greater melee contact time to function.

In other words, your build is fundamentally weaker unless you demonstrate the ability to be more relevant in a team fight, or have some relevant argument of how you utilize a "hybrid" build to affect the outcome of a fight. This argument is already undermined by your lower burst survivability.

From what I can see, your build relies on your opponents to attack random targets while you lifesteal to avoid dying, netting a decent sustained damage score because you have less burst.

Overall, this is not effective.

Most importantly, you need to seriously weigh the combat capability of a Lichbane+Rageblade build versus your "hybrid" build, since those are very straightforward AP-combat hybrid items, which have very obvious and immediate value, whereas your build is more random -- using disparate items rather than items that already have an internal synergy between autoattack combat and AP pew pew.


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ironstove

Member

03-18-2010

The best hybrid build would probably be one that gets lichbane imo. Going AD kass is just too rambo. The guy can't tank and he isn't a good melee carry at all. If you have ever played dota, he is like the remixed version of queen of pain, and suggesting to go AD kass is like suggesting to go deso/buriza qop which would work in a pubstomp, but unfortunately isn't going to pull the same number of wins as a build that capitalizes on kass's best DPS skills which are force pulse and rift walk which you can only do by stacking AP items on him.

I used to go lichbane and I have mixed feelings about it. The damage it adds to your melee attack is amazing, but at the same time, I don't like being within melee range of other heroes in fights because I can get ripped up pretty easily if the team takes the time to focus me because any smart team knows that kass in the fight is a huge threat with his 5s CD on pulse and riftwalk so they usually target him ASAP as soon as he goes in. Basically, I feel that going lichbane in my prev build of him put me in a lot of hot spots that I could have easily avoided if I resolved not to optimize the number of melee attacks I got in due to the damage charge (Because if I didn't attack, I'd feel as if I wasted my gold).

Nowadays, I prefer just going cata, soulstealer, then either veil or ROA depending on the team I am facing. Usually tend to get creative from that point on, but I normally get something like 2 wands and a frozen heart then morph that into something else later. I agree that building up riftwalk is a bad idea. The damage is godly, but I'm sure every kass player has done this at least once where you riftwalk into a teamfight and immediately die in 1 second because you landed right in the center in order to hit everyone, and if you haven't then good job, you're not stupid like me lmao. But yea, hence why I believe using riftwalk as a main dps is a bad idea. The spells I spam the most are force pulse and sphere. I get off rifts when I am chasing, but otherwise, during teamfights, I play it safe and then as the fight picks up, I start spamming rift because doing it right in the beginning just makes me a main target.


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