Philosophers Stone

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tumultuoustempus

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05-19-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by OwenOrgasm View Post
The thing about the stones most people don't understand is that they actually become profitable at 200 seconds. As long as you keep them for 200+ secs they net more gold than they cost.
Math FTL?


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Skumbag Owen

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05-19-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by tumultuoustempus View Post
Math FTL?
Uh no, it's on a forum on here. I'm way too lazy to go look for it though.
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=753929

Edit: added the source so SMD.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

05-19-2011

It sells for 400g, at 200 seconds, you've netted 100g from it's passive (5 gold every 10 seconds).

You buy it for 800g.

After 200 seconds of inventory time, you sell it. You've gained 100g from it's ticking passive [(200/10)*5], and gained 400g from the sale. Your net loss is 300g (800 - 400 + 100).

You must have it for a minimum of 800 seconds (13.33333 minutes) (400g) for it to be sold, and not lose any gold. [400g from passive, 400g from sale]

I think the forum poster you are referencing may have made an error.

From the LoL wiki:

Quote:
This item will pay for itself in 26 minutes and 40 seconds. If you sell it, it takes 13 minutes and 20 seconds.
EDIT: The poster you referenced actually placed a gold value on the HP regen and mana regen. I suppose that argument really depends on what you're arguing. If you're at full health and full mana, it doesn't provide any returns at all.


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gom99

Senior Member

05-19-2011

I like 2 Philosopher Stones on AP carries, but I wouldn't do 2 on a tank. I'd do 1 Philo Stone + 1 HoG instead, make Randiun's later.


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Gunflame

Senior Member

05-19-2011

ummm... depends on how valuable are the regen stats for you:


800g: +22.5 Health Regen per 5 sec +10 Mana Regen per 5 sec

Stats value = 1222,5g
---- ---- ---- ---- ----
435g: +15 Health Regen per 5 sec (652.5g for 22.5 HP5)
390g: +7 Mana regen per 5 sec
180g: +3 Mana Regen per 5 sec
-------

As you can see PS is highly gold efficient. If you use both mana and need regen in lane. Which champions do this? Chogath, Swain, Jarvan... just to name few. Tough champions that use mana. Supports like Soraka, Sona, Janna use mana and regen during laning phase.

Another way to make the analysis in philosopher stone:
Health pot = 200 hp
Mana pot = 100 mana

Non-reimbursable cost of PS stone = 400.

The ratios between regens are 2.25:1.... we will just assume a 1 HP pot :1 Mana pot ratio to make it simpler.

370 gold = 6 HP potions+4 Mana potions. or 400 mana + 1200 HP

after 4.5 mins Philosopher stone replenishes 1215 HP and 540 Mana. more than what potions can replenish.

Is double PS useful? yea on some champions ut it is situational


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Skumbag Owen

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05-19-2011

Well like I said depending on their team comp I would build any of the gold per second items.
Realistically I'd buy probably two stones and a HoG and if I could get away with it I'd build the AP one till I reach six items (with boots as one)
It's not a strategy that would work in a losing game, it's more so for ranked seeing as how they tend to be longer games.
But in some cases if you do stack 5 stones I've been in low level fights getting focused and I regen almost faster than they can attack, depending on character and number of people.
Granted the regen isn't amazing and I may be wrong about this but it's similiar to armor depending on AS, if you're regen is half of what their damage is, isn't it roughly the equivalent of armor?

I mean as if Xin is doing 80 AD a hit with .9 AS (early game example) and you're regen is 25/sec with 5 stones doesn't that decrease his damage by 25 every hit, not counting if you knock him up and healing another 25?


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Krimblast

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05-19-2011

I get one most of time, cos i like to start off with regrowth as i play mostly tanky /tanks.
And philo is good for mp/hp reg, but stacking them isnt - its better to buy armor/mresist for next 800, but every tanky champ must have some way to reg his mp...


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Chingmeister

Senior Member

05-19-2011

I stack 5 on everyone I can.

This includes jungle tanks, ranged carries, supports, bruisers, and assasins.

You don't need defensive or offensive items with a level advantage due to extreemly fast jungling and a good skillset on many champions.

You use Philo Stones to replace red/blue pots so you can harass/jungle hard and fast.

The time they break even is really 200 seconds.

[COLOR=#063677]http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=753929[/COLOR]


"By providing 22 health and 10 mana per 5, it is effectively a red potion every 45 seconds, and a blue potion every 50 seconds, on top of its 5 gold/10...

This converts to 35 gold/45 seconds, 40 gold/50 seconds, and 5 gold/10 seconds, or slightly above 2 gold/second."

It is actually only 180 seconds if you upgrade it to Miracle before selling it. Danka-shane Lancer and Riot!
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=759175

Most people won't understand this concept until they jungle with max cdr/philosopher stone Rammus head to head against a traditional thormail/defense Rammus build and end up 2-3 levels ahead due to faster clear/travel/respawn speed, with more gold, more ganks due to always being full hp and mana, and overall being equally tanky at any point in the game due to the level advantage and jungling at full health, instead of jungling from 100%-40% and being at less than full health if needed to gank, and needing to B.


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Skumbag Owen

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05-19-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chingmeister View Post
I stack 5 on everyone I can.

The time they break even is really 200 seconds.
Thank you.


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preparetobeowned

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05-19-2011

I'd get one philo+one hog. It works alot better than two