### 24 ap vs 6 Mpen

HeXiiS

Senior Member

3 x 7.8 Ap/lvl quints
or
3 x 2.8 magic pen quints

which would benefit more, around mid game, during team fights?

(obviously Mpen is better early game)

i have Mpen reds and AP blues

Medusa

Senior Member

Depends what champ it is on and what are the ratios of the skills.

AP better on Support, M-pen on DPS/Nukers.

HeXiiS

Senior Member

i play akali, vlad, sometimes karthus

Medusa

Senior Member

AP possibly on Akali to trigger her passive early (depending what your starting item is) but M-pen on Vlad and Karth.

Arbitrarity

Senior Member

Numbers are off. Mpen quints give 1.89 pen. Anyways, calculation is simply (base damage + ratio*(base AP+quint value))*100/(100+(enemy MR-other pen-Quint pen)). So if we stick some arbitrary numbers in there, like say, Vlad's Q at level 12, (100 AP, sorc shoes, enemy has 50 MR) we get (250+ 0.6(100+17))*100/(100+(50-28)) vs (250+0.6(100))*100/(100+(50-34)), or 262.5 vs 267.2.
In that case, Mpen is favored.
Keep in mind MPen is better early game than scaling AP, since you don't have maximum penetration without sorc shoes. Mpen scales much worse if enemies begin getting significant amounts of MR, but is stronger against enemies with little MR.

As Akali, you might consider Potency quints (flat AP) since they are stronger than the scaling up till 11 or so, and can help activate your double passives at level 1.

bARRtender

Senior Member

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anivias Chosen
AP possibly on Akali to trigger her passive early (depending what your starting item is) but M-pen on Vlad and Karth.
I agree with this.

To actually do the math you can figure it out yourself. Predict the amount of mRes the opponents will have and what level you are, take these formulas and do some simple math:
3 x 7.8 Ap/lvl quints
([spell dmg] + ([expected ap]+23.4*[ap ratio]) * 100/([expected mRes]+100)
or
3 x 2.8 magic pen quints
([spell dmg] + ([expected ap]*[ap ratio]) * 100/([expected mRes]-8.4+100)

I'm going to bet that magic pen wins.

Edit: idk why I filled out half the equations but not the other half. Now it's just variables.