Kassadin, am I doing it wrong?

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TwoFatNuts

Adjudicator

03-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalai View Post
Well I tried haunting guise in a premade but the small cd reduction and regen is neglectable I prefer catalyst over it alot.

I run exhaust for first bloods, and to babysit teammates in solo queue's (stupid ******ed people)
Dropped tele for clarity.

I'm trying your build in this game and I will see, i'm gonna get a lichbane after the first zhonya's though

What runes are good for kassadin btw :O?
Lol, ok now I understand the exhaust. I solo q aswell....which is kinda why I dont play kass as much as Id like to. Guise is just there for early regen and magic pen. The cd reduction is just an added bonus and the regen is more reliable than the catalyst. Once you get a first zhonya's I would absolutely advise you to play it by ear so to speak. If you think a LB is the best choice for that matchup then by all means get one. At that point probably the best thing you can do is move away from a pre-designated build and build around your team and the enemies lineup.

As for runes, I have no idea. I havent bothered to invest in runes tbh. Id imagine hp quints and maybe some regen would be good. Magic pen is good to unless you're getting something in addition to sorc boots for that, then its pretty much wasted due to the way magic pen is calculated.

gl


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Avalai

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Senior Member

03-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoFatNuts View Post
Lol, ok now I understand the exhaust. I solo q aswell....which is kinda why I dont play kass as much as Id like to. Guise is just there for early regen and magic pen. The cd reduction is just an added bonus and the regen is more reliable than the catalyst. Once you get a first zhonya's I would absolutely advise you to play it by ear so to speak. If you think a LB is the best choice for that matchup then by all means get one. At that point probably the best thing you can do is move away from a pre-designated build and build around your team and the enemies lineup.

As for runes, I have no idea. I havent bothered to invest in runes tbh. Id imagine hp quints and maybe some regen would be good. Magic pen is good to unless you're getting something in addition to sorc boots for that, then its pretty much wasted due to the way magic pen is calculated.

gl
Nvm the build have to try in another game, a ******ed yi screwed me...

Well I think I still prefer catalyst just for the survivability and to make it a rod of ages later wich is an awsome item. then zhonya's and maybe lichbane

For runes I think magic pen and cooldown reduction maybe. Dunno if I then still can get Ap in primary though then Health quints or something.


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TwoFatNuts

Adjudicator

03-15-2010

I wouldnt bother going ap runes. At most you're getting, what +20 ap. That turns into like 15 dmg per cast.....I think it would be much better used for hp, regen or as you said cd reduction.


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Empyron

Senior Member

03-15-2010

I pretty much main kassadin nowadays. I run him ignite/flash with 10/0/20 build.

My build order depends completely on how well I'm doing.

Sapphire Crystal > catalyst (if doing really really well)
If I blue pill with 800ish gold, I'll just snag tome and boots 1 first then
get catalyst.
Then Mejai's, then Boots 2, then build to DFG and so on.

Core items:

Catalyst (Banshee's veil)
Boots 2 (sorc boots usually)
Mejai's
Deathfire Grasp
Tear of the Goddess if you're hurtin on mana.


After this, it's whatever you want.


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Avalai

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Senior Member

03-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empyron View Post
I pretty much main kassadin nowadays. I run him ignite/flash with 10/0/20 build.

My build order depends completely on how well I'm doing.

Sapphire Crystal > catalyst (if doing really really well)
If I blue pill with 800ish gold, I'll just snag tome and boots 1 first then
get catalyst.
Then Mejai's, then Boots 2, then build to DFG and so on.

Core items:

Catalyst (Banshee's veil)
Boots 2 (sorc boots usually)
Mejai's
Deathfire Grasp
Tear of the Goddess if you're hurtin on mana.


After this, it's whatever you want.
To much mana stuff and way way to less AP

Rod of Ages>banshees as Kassadin..
Deathfire gasp not my taste and gives to less AP I rather get zhonya's


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Common0324

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Senior Member

03-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoFatNuts View Post
Wow, just LOLOLOL. I guess theres no reason for a squishy caster to get the items that would increase his spell's damage the most....



These are the things a mediocre Kass need. Wanna go 2-2-4? Get these items.



The resist is true enough but that would be a late game item and your mobility should be enough to keep you from dying, not stacking hp.



Bad idea and Im hoping you mean rift walk because wasting flash on a situation like that is baddie material.



Because you went with Mana/Hp items



If you can, but since you were dumb enuf to blink in your rift walk will be on cd. Good luck not getting cc'd and focused to death in 2 seconds. O ya and if you manage to get away congrats you just spent mana that you desperately need stacking up your ult.



IF this actually worked and everything went to plan then it would be a decent strat. However, the likely hood of this playing out in a game with a decent enemy team is slim to none.




Wow, you just dont know what you're missing. Mejai's costs a whopping 1200ish gold and is extremely easy to keep a minimum of 3 stacks at which point you're getting almost 50 ap for a little more than the cost of a blasting wand. As someone who claims to 'rarely die' I dont see how you cant absolutely love a Mejai's. Even with your low score of 8-1-4 we're talking about well over 100ap for 1200 gold. Even with the next nerf comming to mejai's (8ap per stack) it is still a must-have item for kass imo.



The catalyst is understandable. I used to run that build aswell. If you have big problems maintaiining early then I would suggest a Haunting Guise instead. Gives regen, ap and magic pen. All very useful for Kass. Personally, vs people who harrass like crazy I melee where I can and save my sphere for the big creeps that give extra gold. You wont be ballin but it will get you where you need to be. This actually adds up pretty fast and if you go clarity you shouldnt have any mana issues at all early game. ie go ahead and dump your mana on creeps at lvl 3 and use clarity, repeat and by lvl 6 it will be up again. As for exhaust/tele I dont think exhaust gives the mr reduction it used to and with rift walk your shouldnt need the slow. As for tele, only time ive seen it useful is where someone stacks riftwalk then teleports in for some decent damage. A good tactic, but a bit situational.

Sorry for wall o txt


Hahaha... Okay, how many wins with Kassadin do you have?? Sure rushing Mejai Soulstealer is a great pub stomping build but once you grow up and play with the big boys games end after about 10 to 15 kills. So good luck with that. Your entire build is null and void the instant you claimed he should get more than 1 zhonyas. Any other ap item is better than an extra zhonya. The only magic pen you get is boots which means if they get a single magic resist item your damage is cut greatly.

Damage = (Base Damage*AP Ratio)*(1-(X/(100+X)))
X = Magic Resist-Magic Pen

Do a little math, void staff adds more damage to a person then Zhonya's unless you already have a really large amount of AP off of runes, since as we already discussed. Kills don't come easy early game, people arent that stupid in real games.

Further more Kassadin and mana regen should never even be used in the same sentence. Regen is worthless. I dont know how many bursts you'll be able to do with regen instead of straight mana (haunting guise vs catalyst) because your haunting guise isnt going to help you much when you're trying to chase ppl down and with riftwalk stacking every pounce your outta mana.

From extensive math (got really bored one day)
catalyst > haunting guise
upgrade to sorc shoes > blasting wand
3rd item: void staff > zhonya (same goes for abyssal)

Now if you're playing low ELO pub stomping like they do:
Mejai's
Sorc Shoes
Void Staff
Zhonya's
RoA

This build you dont adapt to the other team, you hope your team doesnt get you screwed over, and if eveyrthing works out okay, you pound people so hard they QQ to their mommy. They should surrender the game before you even hit twenty stacks. That is of course, if your not lvl 30 or you are but your ELO is still low enough to pub stomp.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

03-15-2010

Actually, sorry to burst your bubble, but Void Staff isn't worth getting, gold spent per AP and Penetration gained, till the other team has three or more champions with greater than ~150 magic resist. Mejai's is more cost effective, gold spent per AP, than any other item if Kassadin is doing anything other than feeding.

If you want to actually crunch numbers that is, for games that don't last beyond ~20 kills per side due to wipe => immediate push. Which means those games are low gold games, which means the other team and your team need to focus on more efficient gold per xxxx items rather than working towards an unrealistic build. That is done by either rushing a single top end item, or taking a slew of low cost high efficiency items.


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Empyron

Senior Member

03-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalai View Post
To much mana stuff and way way to less AP

Rod of Ages>banshees as Kassadin..
Deathfire gasp not my taste and gives to less AP I rather get zhonya's
RoA costs too much... the more mana you have on kass, the longer you can hit and run. Kassadin is a whittler/burster... not as much just a burster.


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Common0324

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Senior Member

03-15-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo7 View Post
Actually, sorry to burst your bubble, but Void Staff isn't worth getting, gold spent per AP and Penetration gained, till the other team has three or more champions with greater than ~150 magic resist. Mejai's is more cost effective, gold spent per AP, than any other item if Kassadin is doing anything other than feeding.

If you want to actually crunch numbers that is, for games that don't last beyond ~20 kills per side due to wipe => immediate push. Which means those games are low gold games, which means the other team and your team need to focus on more efficient gold per xxxx items rather than working towards an unrealistic build. That is done by either rushing a single top end item, or taking a slew of low cost high efficiency items.

Oh gosh, here we go again. So lets say the other team has some of those people you're supposed to kill. You know, Kat, Udyr, Yi, Tryndamere, Annie, Nid, Warwick, Shaco, Pantheon. All these people have a higher then average magic resist. So I picked one, used his magic resist and calculated some things. Come to find out if those champs don't buy any extra magic resist, and Soulstealer has 10 stacks on it, Void Staff still does more damage than Soulstealer. Yes, Soulstealer does more damage per gold (as long as you have stacks on it).

So Soulstealer with 10 stacks on it. That requires 5 kills, 4 kills and 2 assists, 3 kills and 4 assists, and 0 deaths. Seeing as we're building it early we're sacrificing any survivability. Furthermore, all these kills/assists would have to come after getting Mejai's. The only way I can see this even being viable would be if you went mid, which is ******ed because if you get set up against a Sivir you wont even have time to leave lane to gank and get kills. So lets say the game progresses on. Your bound to die, there goes a chunk of stacks. They buy some magic resist, there goes a large chunk of damage. However, if you have Void Staff, with each new buy of magic resist by the other team, Void Staff becomes a much better buy seeing as it reduces the amount of Magic Resist given by each item by 40%.

So lets say one of these champs your playing against buys Merc Treads (crazy I know, but just what if). All the sudden the 10 stacks you have on Mejai's gives you .07 gold per damage more than Void Staff. Would hate to see what would happen if you died with your 10 stacks. It's okay though, because no one ever dies while playing Kassadin. I mean it's not like anyone ever focuses the Kassadin in a team fight. It's okay though, with all the survivability you've build up with your Mejai's and Haunting Guise and all the other good items yall have been throwing out there.

But kudos because in the end when you have 3 Zhonya's no survivability and your Mejai's with however many stacks, you wont have to worry about failing to burst down those stupid people with Banshee's veil (seriously who actually gets those things) since the veil kills half your damage by blocking an ability and the magic resist gets rid of any other threat. Good thing you have all that mana and health regen from haunting guise to be able to tank some damage and continuously burst them down with all that mana. It's okay though because the CD reduction will allow you to use those abilities you dont have mana for faster. Just you know what, I'm done. Play your fail Kassadin builds all you want. When the Rammus taunts you, or Annie drops a stun and you die instantly because your **** build. Don't come crying to me.

Edit:
Let me clarify I'm not saying never get a Soulstealer. It is a good item just most of the time it doesn't fit. There are situations however (your mid against someone who's not sivir or ashe) that picking up soul stealer early is good and allows you to end the game early with a couple planned ganks from the team. Expect to lose mid tower though and expect to make many trips back to the healing well.


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Smuggler

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Member

03-15-2010

Best runes are magic pen, get a set of sorc boots and a void staff on top, after your soulsteeler game turns into a joke, regardless of their magic resist. AP runes cant compare to magic pen runes sadly... =/