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Kassadin, am I doing it wrong?

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Zombie Irwin

Senior Member

03-14-2010

no one listed sheen>>lichbane? even in an ap build it seems it would be a good choice


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Avalai

Recruiter

03-15-2010

Quote:
Zombie Irwin:
no one listed sheen>>lichbane? even in an ap build it seems it would be a good choice


Now depending on how much mejai stacks I can get before having the money for zhonya's I get get lich bane.
Though zhonya's are useually better..


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TwoFatNuts

Adjudicator

03-15-2010

Quote:
Avalai:
Yea I stack AP on him.

Lemme mention build here:
Sapphire crystal+health pot+ mana pot> catalyst > sorc boots > mejai's/zhonya's (depends on game) > Rod of ages

Then game is most likely over.
I have the same problem as you


Kass is easily my fav and if he wasnt so dependent on his team I would probably play him almost exclusively.

My advice. Dont get catalyst. The regen is nice bla bla but if you want kills then you need to go damage asap. Otherwise your enemies will have the same amount of time to beef up their hp leading to the 'omg got away with 200hp' situation.

Start off by rushing your mejai's (tome and a hp pot at start). Next get sorc boots and then stack ap like a maniac. If you're coordinated enough get a Deathfire if not go with Rylai's (the hp is nice). After that get zhonyas zhonyas zhon....you get the point. Kass is not ment to be a survivor, hes ment to melt faces with massive amounts of ap burst dmg.

p.s. Sheen-->lichbane is a terrible choice. The attack damage is a big yawn and in all seriousness you should NEVER NEVER NEVER be in melee range long enough to be auto-attacking someone. (you will die......quickly)

P.s.s I find that clarity is almost a necessity with kass. His mobility and damage output is tied directly to his tiny mana pool. This way you can maximize your damage without having to worry about getting regen items or heading back to the pool after every scuffle.

good luck


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Ultimatnoob

Recruiter

03-15-2010

Do what TwoFatNuts said. I play with Kass a lot, and the main problem I have with him is not not getting kills,(627, 288,494 k,d,a with him, and a lot of that is from when I first started, he was free, and I played crappily with him) it's that in team fights, he isn't the greatest.

I rush Mejai's first, then sorcerers shoes, then Zhonya's. After that it depends on the game. Often I'll get guardian angel next, though sometimes I get archangels or deathfire.

Guardian angel really is a good item for Kass, first, it helps keep your Mejais full, second, with many champs, it will save you for a second, only to have the whole team kill you in 1 second after you spawn again, with Kass, I have escaped 5-on-1 ganks with it because of his riftwalk. By the time I get mejai,sorc,Zhon's, I usually have enough AP to destroy most people anyways.


As far as getting kills, again, do as FatNuts says. Don't take on a full HP champ (usually), during laning, harass with null-sphere, untill they are about half-3/4 health, then rift in, nuke, get kill. (unless your laning against a healer, then just use null to get last hits) In team fights, wait in the back, maybe throwing a few null sphere (especially on casters, you own Ryze's and Karthus's) then when someone is low, rift in, nuke, and get kills, then rift out.


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Common0324

Senior Member

03-15-2010

Well the first thing I see that you've done wrong is Zhonya's/Mejai's. A successful Kassadin needs three things, health/mana/magic pen. Don't underestimate the magic pen. For example, buying Sorc Shoes gives you more damage then a blasting wand. If a team is stacking magic resist, you want a void staff. You need to have a lot of mana so you can continuously unleash your spells in burst damage in a team fight. Also, more health allows you to actually survive to the end of a team fight where Kassadin's true power comes out, chasing people down.

You should die rarely when you play Kassadin. Your job is to flash straight to the back of the fight where the enemies DPS is located and unleash hell on them. You can't kill them right off the bat though. Once they switch focus to you you haul ass outta there. Then they refocus on the fight because they can't catch you. Thats when you flash back in to clean up the job. A lot of health makes this strategy more viable seeing as the enemy DPS won't be able to weaken you to a point of actually being able to kill you. Even at low health, you should linger on the out sides of fight and wait for an opportunity to flash in and grab a kill. With Kassadin's burst damage usually I'm the only getting the last hits. I'm the KS'er.

My build usually looks like this:

Sapphire Crystal > Rod of Ages
Boots > Merc or Sorc
Void Staff or Abyssal Scepter (depends on if I need magic resist or not)
Rylai's or Zhonya's

Notice the game is very situational. If I'm having no problems taking too much damage then I go Zhonya's. Usually though, Kassadin needs the health and a Riftwalk that slows is never a bad thing.

Boots depends on enemy CC. As Kass you should never die, unless they have 3 stuns they all use on you. In which case, merc treads save the day. My average game with Kassadin looks something like 8-1-4 or somewhere around there. 15-3 or 15-4 for longer games. The longer the game goes usually adds to an increase in assist to kill ratio.

Edit:
Mejai's is a pretty worthless item for Kass since the nerf but if the game is going pretty good I do pick it up. There's nothing worse then having to rely on stacks late game though.


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I x y

Member

03-15-2010

Quote:
Avalai:
An assist gives only 1 mejai stack and less gold.

Like a tank comes in and last hit then i'm angry..



Like you are more valueable to your team then your tank is, is that what you are saying??
Tanks have an even harder time to gain cash, and they DO need items as well.
It's a teamgame, don't forget that...

Also, if you are going zhonya's > ROA, you might want to switch them around.
The ROA takes time to build up, and the 25% bonus from Zhonya get's better after you have ROA.


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Avalai

Recruiter

03-15-2010

Quote:
TwoFatNuts:
Kass is easily my fav and if he wasnt so dependent on his team I would probably play him almost exclusively.

My advice. Dont get catalyst. The regen is nice bla bla but if you want kills then you need to go damage asap. Otherwise your enemies will have the same amount of time to beef up their hp leading to the 'omg got away with 200hp' situation.

Start off by rushing your mejai's (tome and a hp pot at start). Next get sorc boots and then stack ap like a maniac. If you're coordinated enough get a Deathfire if not go with Rylai's (the hp is nice). After that get zhonyas zhonyas zhon....you get the point. Kass is not ment to be a survivor, hes ment to melt faces with massive amounts of ap burst dmg.

p.s. Sheen-->lichbane is a terrible choice. The attack damage is a big yawn and in all seriousness you should NEVER NEVER NEVER be in melee range long enough to be auto-attacking someone. (you will die......quickly)

P.s.s I find that clarity is almost a necessity with kass. His mobility and damage output is tied directly to his tiny mana pool. This way you can maximize your damage without having to worry about getting regen items or heading back to the pool after every scuffle.

good luck


I usually go Catalyst cause it gives me someneed survivability early game.

My question, if yuo start rushing mejai's then where do i get my last hits when i'm laning vs some heavily harrassing people (kat and Morgana for example).
Last game we actually won because I got a lichbane wich enabled me to 3 hit squishy's (null sphere, force pulse, autoattack).
Build: catalyst first>boots>mejai's>zhonya's>rod of ages>lichbane>rylais
Lichbane enabled me to do around 700 autoattacks..

Just wondering how I should last hit when I start with a tome vs harrassing enemy's, Maybe clarity is a soution to that I currently ruun teleport/exhaust I guess I should drop teleport.


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Kelin

Senior Member

03-15-2010

Quote:
I x y:
Like you are more valueable to your team then your tank is, is that what you are saying??
Tanks have an even harder time to gain cash, and they DO need items as well.
It's a teamgame, don't forget that...

Also, if you are going zhonya's > ROA, you might want to switch them around.
The ROA takes time to build up, and the 25% bonus from Zhonya get's better after you have ROA.


That's why tanks have either farm abilities or need close to no items.

Rammus defensive curl ball/allistar ultimate + great base stats. Malphite and nasus are both decent farmers (and more tank dps than tank), ammumu can farm a bit and does not require too much gold to be very effective.

Kassadin cannot farm very well and relies on champ kills, much like shaco/evelynn. Therefor an allistar stealing your kill is a huge drawback for a kass and minor advantage for allistar.

And the answer has already been giving, you need to join the battle a little bit later which is perfectly possible with rift walk. It's like shaco/evelynn, you are there to take out a carry and if you succeed chase and finish the remaining champions. Only way of doing this is staying out of battle till stuns are used and the carry is unprotected from you.

Also refrain from harassin too much if it takes a lot of your mana. You will be needing it.


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TwoFatNuts

Adjudicator

03-15-2010

Quote:
Common0324:
Well the first thing I see that you've done wrong is Zhonya's/Mejai's.


Wow, just LOLOLOL. I guess theres no reason for a squishy caster to get the items that would increase his spell's damage the most....

Quote:
Common0324:
A successful Kassadin needs three things, health/mana/magic pen. Don't underestimate the magic pen. For example, buying Sorc Shoes gives you more damage then a blasting wand.


These are the things a mediocre Kass need. Wanna go 2-2-4? Get these items.

Quote:
Common0324:
If a team is stacking magic resist, you want a void staff. You need to have a lot of mana so you can continuously unleash your spells in burst damage in a team fight. Also, more health allows you to actually survive to the end of a team fight where Kassadin's true power comes out, chasing people down.


The resist is true enough but that would be a late game item and your mobility should be enough to keep you from dying, not stacking hp.

Quote:
Common0324:
You should die rarely when you play Kassadin. Your job is to flash straight to the back of the fight where the enemies DPS is located and unleash hell on them.


Bad idea and Im hoping you mean rift walk because wasting flash on a situation like that is baddie material.

Quote:
Common0324:
You can't kill them right off the bat though.


Because you went with Mana/Hp items

Quote:
Common0324:
Once they switch focus to you you haul ass outta there.


If you can, but since you were dumb enuf to blink in your rift walk will be on cd. Good luck not getting cc'd and focused to death in 2 seconds. O ya and if you manage to get away congrats you just spent mana that you desperately need stacking up your ult.

Quote:
Common0324:
Then they refocus on the fight because they can't catch you. Thats when you flash back in to clean up the job. A lot of health makes this strategy more viable seeing as the enemy DPS won't be able to weaken you to a point of actually being able to kill you.


IF this actually worked and everything went to plan then it would be a decent strat. However, the likely hood of this playing out in a game with a decent enemy team is slim to none.


Quote:
Common0324:
Mejai's is a pretty worthless item for Kass since the nerf but if the game is going pretty good I do pick it up. There's nothing worse then having to rely on stacks late game though.


Wow, you just dont know what you're missing. Mejai's costs a whopping 1200ish gold and is extremely easy to keep a minimum of 3 stacks at which point you're getting almost 50 ap for a little more than the cost of a blasting wand. As someone who claims to 'rarely die' I dont see how you cant absolutely love a Mejai's. Even with your low score of 8-1-4 we're talking about well over 100ap for 1200 gold. Even with the next nerf comming to mejai's (8ap per stack) it is still a must-have item for kass imo.

Quote:
Avalai:
I usually go Catalyst cause it gives me someneed survivability early game.

My question, if yuo start rushing mejai's then where do i get my last hits when i'm laning vs some heavily harrassing people (kat and Morgana for example).

Just wondering how I should last hit when I start with a tome vs harrassing enemy's, Maybe clarity is a soution to that I currently ruun teleport/exhaust I guess I should drop teleport.


The catalyst is understandable. I used to run that build aswell. If you have big problems maintaiining early then I would suggest a Haunting Guise instead. Gives regen, ap and magic pen. All very useful for Kass. Personally, vs people who harrass like crazy I melee where I can and save my sphere for the big creeps that give extra gold. You wont be ballin but it will get you where you need to be. This actually adds up pretty fast and if you go clarity you shouldnt have any mana issues at all early game. ie go ahead and dump your mana on creeps at lvl 3 and use clarity, repeat and by lvl 6 it will be up again. As for exhaust/tele I dont think exhaust gives the mr reduction it used to and with rift walk your shouldnt need the slow. As for tele, only time ive seen it useful is where someone stacks riftwalk then teleports in for some decent damage. A good tactic, but a bit situational.

Sorry for wall o txt


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Avalai

Recruiter

03-15-2010

Quote:
TwoFatNuts:

The catalyst is understandable. I used to run that build aswell. If you have big problems maintaiining early then I would suggest a Haunting Guise instead. Gives regen, ap and magic pen. All very useful for Kass. Personally, vs people who harrass like crazy I melee where I can and save my sphere for the big creeps that give extra gold. You wont be ballin but it will get you where you need to be. This actually adds up pretty fast and if you go clarity you shouldnt have any mana issues at all early game. ie go ahead and dump your mana on creeps at lvl 3 and use clarity, repeat and by lvl 6 it will be up again. As for exhaust/tele I dont think exhaust gives the mr reduction it used to and with rift walk your shouldnt need the slow. As for tele, only time ive seen it useful is where someone stacks riftwalk then teleports in for some decent damage. A good tactic, but a bit situational.


Well I tried haunting guise in a premade but the small cd reduction and regen is neglectable I prefer catalyst over it alot.

I run exhaust for first bloods, and to babysit teammates in solo queue's (stupid ******ed people)
Dropped tele for clarity.

I'm trying your build in this game and I will see, i'm gonna get a lichbane after the first zhonya's though

What runes are good for kassadin btw :O?