An educated opinion on Vayne

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Killerwing

Member

05-12-2011

First, I have to say I am someone that rarely wants to play AD characters of any kind. Because of this I tend to gravitate around casters of various kind. However one exception to this was none other than Urgot, a rather unique AD character who feels like he has a caster-ish way to play.

So why am I mentioning Urgot? Because when I saw Vayne during the public livestream, I thought she could be similar to Urgot.

I can definitively say that while the two can accomplish a similar role, they are drastically different in their approach.

Enough of Urgot now, let's focus on Vayne.

Right now, people are screaming she is OP. I beg to disagree, she's not. She is balanced.
Let's review the prime point of the reason behind the OP-ness.

People say she hurts like hell. Yes, they are right. With a proper 21/0/9 build with the right runes to match with, coupled with a Doran's Blade, her Tumble attack can easily deal more than 100 damage at LEVEL ONE!

BUT!!!

SHE IS SQUISHY AS HELL!!!

I cannot stop to emphasize this point. She is incredibly FRAGILE. Do you know how much hp and armor she starts with at level 1(without runes and masteries)?

She starts with 442 hp and 13 armor!!!
Anivia, which is most likely the other best known champion to be squishy actually starts with 420 hp and 14.5 armor!!!

Yeah, the freaking squishy bird starts with 22 less hp points, but 1.5 more armor than the so-called OP champ! The only reason Anivia doesn't fear that squishy-ness much is due to both her passive and her enormous range.

But Vayne has NEITHER of that.

What does it mean? It means that early game, Vayne CAN hurt, but CAN be hurt badly too. There can be some very nasty champs that could easily take her down fast early game. Some good examples I could see are Renekton, who just has to dash through minions and stun her. And if that Renekton built his runes with armor penereation Reds and Quints, it'll give him already 25 armor penetration(more if he went Offense in Masteries), which is going to HURT a lot!

And don't even get me started on Caitlyn. Vayne can hurt and poke...But Caitlyn has INSANE range that she can use to constantly hit Vayne, no matter what she will do. Caitlyn can completely ZONE OUT Vayne from farming.
Malzahar can also shut her down very badly. Once he reaches lvl 6, his combo will pretty much destroy her. And IF that Malzahar decides to only ult Vayne in team fights...she is dead...Unless she had a Banshee up or a Quicksilver Sash to use.

And there are tanky champions that can really hold out their own well in laning phase vs Vayne. I laned vs a Maokai who went mid...And despite all my poking and harassing...I barely managed to get him, and he started to wreck me...WITHOUT DAMAGE ITEMS...

The overall point of this is that Vayne can hurt a lot...But she can't really take a hit. She probably is right now the epitome of the term 'Assassin' in LoL: Someone that can take down a target quickly, but isn't really tough. When you compare her to other assassins like Akali, LeBlanc, Evelyn and others, you can easily notice that they are much more tougher than her, and they can easily take a beating even in team fights(granted, any champion will melt if focus fired by a team).

I hope this makes my point clear. Vayne is not OP by any mean. And I have to admit that even though I can have a good time in laning phase while playing as her, things get way tougher in team fights because the enemy team just keeps going for me first. Just another way to show that even if she seemingly seem to be OP 'on paper', she really ain't that OP on the field.

And guess another subtle thing. Remember those champs I mentionned that can hurt Vayne badly in laning? 3 of them are currently free. Guess Riot was subtly smart enough to pull out some powerful counter champs at the same time Vayne goes out.

By the way, here are the numbers for the hp and armor of those other assassins I just mentioned when they start at level 1 without masteries or runes:

Akali: 510 hp, 17 armor
Evelyn: 500 hp, 16.5 armor
LeBlanc: 465 hp, 15.5 armor
(Yes, LeBlanc is obviously the squishiest, but unlike the previous two, she strikes from a range and has excellent escape tricks)

That is all.


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Drace Sylvanian

Senior Member

05-12-2011

I main Malzahar, and while I agree with your point about him, it is still kind of false. The issue is in the levels before level six. During this, you sit at your tower. If you get close enough to the minion wave to get xp or gold, Vayne tumbles past the entire wave and auto attacks you to death as you slowly limp away. Or, she auto attacks you to death when you try and use your one ability on her. Thus, she reaches level six before you unless she sucks. Additionally, I noticed that it is really easy for Vayne to break Malzahar's stun, since her autos travel slowly for some reason. So while she autos you, you ult, and it is broken and you die. Then, there is the cooldown period where you just run from her no matter the situation.


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luckritze

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Junior Member

05-12-2011

Very good post. Keep it up!


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GankosaurusRexx

Member

05-12-2011

IDK how long u have been playing malzahar but i went up against one in mid, where she was constantly rolling past minions etc and pushing me out of xp. so i just kinda sat back and waited for my jungler to come and gank her, we didnt kill her but she flashed went b. we ganked her a second time which was successful since her flash was down. I hit level 6 before her, flashing forward, catching her in my ult, killing her a 2nd time. she got a few kills roaming but was never able to challenge me in any way...


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Zarthorn

Senior Member

05-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drace Sylvanian View Post
I main Malzahar, and while I agree with your point about him, it is still kind of false. The issue is in the levels before level six. During this, you sit at your tower. If you get close enough to the minion wave to get xp or gold, Vayne tumbles past the entire wave and auto attacks you to death as you slowly limp away. Or, she auto attacks you to death when you try and use your one ability on her. Thus, she reaches level six before you unless she sucks. Additionally, I noticed that it is really easy for Vayne to break Malzahar's stun, since her autos travel slowly for some reason. So while she autos you, you ult, and it is broken and you die. Then, there is the cooldown period where you just run from her no matter the situation.
Try timing the stun for when she tumbles, she wont be firing and cant do squat if you catch her at the end of her tumble.

A well played Malazahar actually eats Vayne alive


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CaffeineJunky

Senior Member

05-12-2011

Let's see your Doctorate. In fashion. From france.


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Drace Sylvanian

Senior Member

05-12-2011

I have been playing Malzahar for a while now and love him. I have no problem with Vayne if I can push her out of mid once or orchestrate a gank. I was just QQing about her being unstoppable early game. If played properly, Vayne can kill anyone with just harass. A tumble auto attack at level 2 did something like 130 or more damage to Malz. It is kinda scary, and if you get even a little careless you die, so you lose out on a lot of xp and gold.

After I got lvl 6 and some AP items, in that same game where she kept rolling past to kill me, she decided to do it again and I bursted(sp?) her into nothingness, and the game went well. His malefic vision, once leveled to 3 gives him a huge advantage over her, as he is then able to stay out of her roll range.

But she DOES have a nasty habit of canceling my ult. It has happened at least 4 times now. I wanna know why!


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Killerwing

Member

05-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drace Sylvanian View Post
I have been playing Malzahar for a while now and love him. I have no problem with Vayne if I can push her out of mid once or orchestrate a gank. I was just QQing about her being unstoppable early game. If played properly, Vayne can kill anyone with just harass. A tumble auto attack at level 2 did something like 130 or more damage to Malz. It is kinda scary, and if you get even a little careless you die, so you lose out on a lot of xp and gold.

After I got lvl 6 and some AP items, in that same game where she kept rolling past to kill me, she decided to do it again and I bursted(sp?) her into nothingness, and the game went well. His malefic vision, once leveled to 3 gives him a huge advantage over her, as he is then able to stay out of her roll range.

But she DOES have a nasty habit of canceling my ult. It has happened at least 4 times now. I wanna know why!
My thoughts are that...

1)Either she had a Quicksilver Sash to take out your ult
2)Or she actually managed to shoot her Condemn(E Knockback ability) right as you ulted her, causing your ability to be wasted.

That is provided she was your ult target.


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Djall

Senior Member

05-12-2011

Srsly i think evrybody who is QQing about vayne never played her before, the thing that does damage is her passiv skill from her E or W but the rest doesnt deal much damage and thumble only holds her back ( i have 1,5 attackspeed at the end and im dying most of the time because my tumbleanimation takes to long and im loosing time that i coud have used for attacking).

I already played against her and defeated her with rumble in a on on one earlyer mid and late game ( did the same with caytlin and other champs) but it takes skill to counter a new champ and not the same i burst you QWER and win or brainless autoattack approach that some people do all the time

Sry if im a bit ovensive but im annoyed that there are so many treats about her beeing overpowert ( finaly a treat that isnt about her beeing op)


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Killerwing

Member

05-12-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djall View Post
Srsly i think evrybody who is QQing about vayne never played her before, the thing that does damage is her passiv skill from her E or W but the rest doesnt deal much damage and thumble only holds her back ( i have 1,5 attackspeed at the end and im dying most of the time because my tumbleanimation takes to long and im loosing time that i coud have used for attacking).

I already played against her and defeated her with rumble in a on on one earlyer mid and late game ( did the same with caytlin and other champs) but it takes skill to counter a new champ and not the same i burst you QWER and win or brainless autoattack approach that some people do all the time

Sry if im a bit ovensive but im annoyed that there are so many treats about her beeing overpowert ( finaly a treat that isnt about her beeing op)
Pretty much a good point. Tougher, tankier character at early levels like Maokai and Rumble are the bane of Vayne when played well. I just came out of a game where I had both of them in a duo lane, and it was awful. I couldn't even approach them or get burned by flamethrower, and if I tried to tumble, they'd hide in the bushes. There was nothing I could do. And it didn't helped that the guy I was laning with didn't put his ward in those bushes when he brought back one >_>


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