Gragas - The Weeba Wousa! [Guide]

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nicosharp

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Senior Member

11-02-2010

Updates as of recent patch:
I enjoy playing gragas every way, but for me, extra survival is important, because I often fubar on my lane positioning when playing a AP build.

Tank gragas I still find to be the strongest version of gragas. This build still very much works. The nerf to bodyslam was pretty much uncalled for if you play tank, but oh well, I guess a Gragas fan has to live with him getting a nerf to this unorthodox style of play.

I've tried a few variations to the tank build by rushing catalyst. I have mixed feelings about this variation. It may allow you to spam a bit more, and can quickly turn into a locket/veil/or rod of ages depending on your needs, but you lose the gold per 10 from a heart of gold that I generally rush, and you do not have the ability to turn it into cooldown reduction that is helpful later in the game.

The way I see it, Gragas now has several options. Below are my favorite paths:

If your team looks AP light in champion select, and they don't mind you going solo lane - Go AP Gragas:
Build paths:
Full AP fueled start: Rush Catalyst - Rod of Ages - Zhonyas - etc (lvl Q first, followed by W or E)
Tank AP fueled start: Rush Catalyst - Locket - Spirit Visage - CDR items - etc. (can lvl either Q, W or E i'd suggest Q)
Super AP safe start: Doran's Ring - Rush Zhonya's - Lichbane - etc. (typically deathfires - want cdr close to max if possible)

If you plan to lane with a buddy go Tank or AD Gragas - always take bodyslam as your first skill(even sometimes for above AP builds)
Build paths:
Safe tank vs. a strong lane: doran's shield + hp pot, boots + heart of gold, focus on CDR going randiun's, and either ghostblade if you feel like dishing damage, or more tank gear (frozen heart/or spirit visage+locket/aegis) 0/23/7 masteries with tank rune page
AD pain train: Ruby Crystal - Phage + Boots - varies(can go trinity force - or ghostblade - or frozen mallet, or switch to additional tank/dps stuff - Rushing Sword of Occult is still fun, but not recommended)
AD Danger ganker: More typical on TT - Red Pot + HP pot + ward - focusing on denying early jungle/team gank/or early lane domination - great with champs like Alistar/Janna in lane.
Catalyst Tank: Basically any build you want, but focusing on a early locket first

Jungle Gragas - When your team needs a strong jungler - Always go Bodyslam first, and always get tank masteries and runes: 1/21/8 masteries or 0/21/9 - I like faster smite over greed or improved buffs
Standard build: Red Pot + 5 hp pots - then Heart of Gold + boots - finish boots (mercs or tabi's depending) - then Avarice blade - then items as needed slowly completing randiuns and ghostblade when you can. (ghostblade is a build option but a prefer it for the extra gold clicks, easier mid-game jungling, and extra damage when initiating teamfights)
Jungle order - Smite Big wraith at 1:40, click redpot, bodyslam in remaining 3, and kill them --- Bodyslam into big wolve killing him first - immediately take drunken rage and use it, finish off 2 little wolves using 1 hp pot. When Drunken rage is up again, use it, and bodyslam into blue golem using another hp pot, continue to bodyslam into the golem and finish with smite. Go on from there, ganking after red lizard buff.

Some other fun items for Gragas fans:
Manamune in a AD Tank build or for LOLs - Manamune+Archangel's staff
Tiamat - its just fun and funny, Don't go overboard though, anymore than 3 is just silly
Lichbane or Trinity Force - Triforce just got a nice buff, and lichbane turns any AP focused Gragas into a towerkilling monster.
Stark's and other Attackspeed items - if you are going balls to the wall, there is not much funnier, although he does slow down a lot due to attack animations when he crits.


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Droidnuts

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Member

11-02-2010

really appreciate your reply

thanks


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malphismia

Senior Member

11-02-2010

Still think AD/Tank Gragas is the way to go. Even though they lowered cooldown for Barrel Roll, you can't spam it each time it comes up because its such a high mana drain. The AS reduction is a nice effect, but I think that will come into play mid-end game, which is when you start skilling it anyways.

I jungle with him only, but haven't in a long time. Do you think one point in barrel is worth it jungling (maybe at level 3), since AS reduction can prevent a lot of damage.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

11-03-2010

AP Gragas just plain sucks.

Though I enjoy playing it, you only have ONE actual ability which is hard to connect with. Its kinda like playing Zilean (though his bomb certainly is easier to hit with), or a bad version of Galio who only uses his Smite. The long cooldown isnt helpful, nor is the expensive mana cost.

It is nice to have a mini-clarity that you can use as well as a pseudo-flash with a fast cooldown, but just having 1 offensive ability is weaksauce.

Sure your ult is good, but its only 1 spell every 60 seconds (minus cooldown)

----

The bodyslam version is a lot better, but even then Attack Damage is weak. It costs twice as much as AP, and bodyslam has a 2/3rds ratio. Your attack speed blows so you dont get all that much out of massive attack damage.

So it seems to be the best use of your gold to Tank up. You do pretty decent damage with just base attack damage and base skills damage. You just can't improve your skills fast enough by going other routes, but you can definitely tank like crazy.

My current build has been:

Regen Pendant (so I can be the BOSS in laning).
-> Philo stone. (really nice regen to keep the Machine going. plus free gold)
+boots level 1
+Heart of Gold (needed HPs. armor is nice)
+Leviathon for more HPs.
+Banshees Veil for anti-magic.
+Kindlegem for HPs and -10% cooldown.

Combine kindle/philo into Reverie for even more regen, HPs, more cooldown reduction.
Wardens Mail combined with Heart of Gold into Randerins for more cooldown reduction and toughness.

Ive liked the extra gold from the philo stone and heart.


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nicosharp

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Senior Member

11-03-2010

Just got pwnd by a jungle yi who wasnt even that farmed. Kinda wish I lvled barrel roll earlier, even though I did jungle gragas. The 40% reduced attack speed in that case, would have been nice.

There are some champs that are just ridiculously hard to kill. With the change to exhaust, Yi is definitely one of them. The guy is the notorious backdoorer I know well - only plays Yi and TF - for Yi he went Ghost and Ignite, but Ghost + Yi's Ult + Yi's Q gives him 3 escapes. Oh well. Just remember if you play tank gragas in solo queue, and/or you jungle, you will not beable to carry your team. As AP there is slightly more of a chance you can carry, but this will typically require you have a solo lane. The sad truth is that 8/10 times you will have to be the strongest player on your team if you want to win, and if you are playing tank gragas, although fun, you will not be able to carry.


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cardigan

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Junior Member

11-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrrrax View Post
AP Gragas just plain sucks.
Just because you can't play a good ap gragas doesn't mean anyone else can.

nicos actually the reason why i first started playing gragas to begin with after watching one of his games on livestream. i liked tank gragas so much that i played him exclusively for months. but i always felt that he was always lacking. aside from his strong early game in drunken rage and body slam he doesn't have anything significant to contribute end game in team fights besides his ult for initiating, dragging the one or two guys who overextended towards your team. and afterwards he has just about as much utility as a tank mundo, none.

it wasn't until a few patches later body slam was buffed and scales with ability power.
since then i've been playing ap gragas, and i haven't looked back.

10-2-9
7-0-3
9-0-11
12-2-15
8-0-19
17-0-17
5-0-1
11-0-4

these are my recorded games from today. if theres anything i love, its when guys like you ***** at champion selection screen only to get carried by the fat man 25 minutes in.


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malphismia

Senior Member

11-04-2010

I've picked up jungling with Gragas again. Here is what happened:

Game #1:
-Got a successful double kill first gank, with lizard and E you are assured kills. After that, I realized top was feeding sion hard, and their sion was stacking. It just went downhill from there.

Game #2:
-Got 1 kill and 1 assist on top, still successful gank. Found out I was playing with 2 noob premakes. One duo-premake had a **** connection, so teemo and leblanc fed and said in allchat "lag hehe". The other duo-premake made amumu solo top and give up FB. We almost made a comeback, but then we had teemo. So no.

Game #3:
-I played with a Tristana and Veigar, We just rolled the other team end-game.

I figure that I can't carry really, because even if I'm successfully jungling and even ganking with kills, my teammates can still be bad and I can't carry with tank items. But gragas is still fun, so I'm still going to roll with fatty.

Just looked at his skills more closely. Here is what I learned:

-Skilling up bodyslam decreases cooldown and actually INCREASES movespeed of bodyslam each point, so it helps immensely to escape and chase
-Skilling up ult does nothing but give you increased mana cost and ~100+ damage. I have changed to having one point in ult, and maxing W and E first
-Skilling Q at level 3 is pretty decent if you're not specced defensively for jungling (i.e. armor runes)


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

11-04-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardigan View Post
Just because you can't play a good ap gragas doesn't mean anyone else can.

nicos actually the reason why i first started playing gragas to begin with after watching one of his games on livestream. i liked tank gragas so much that i played him exclusively for months. but i always felt that he was always lacking. aside from his strong early game in drunken rage and body slam he doesn't have anything significant to contribute end game in team fights besides his ult for initiating, dragging the one or two guys who overextended towards your team. and afterwards he has just about as much utility as a tank mundo, none.
I never claimed to be all that awesome, but Id sure like to know how you manage to own everyone by throwing bottles at them. Against noobs, sure I can hide in the bush and toss bottles on em, but skilled players can dodge them pretty easily.

One overlooked factor of Tank Gragas is that you do wind up with a few clickies from items that can be handy.

Randerins is beneficial due to high armor, HP/regen, 15% cooldown reduction, slowdown when hit, etc. It also has a clickie to slow down all baddies nearby. Initiate with your ult, use Randerins, then follow up with BodySlam (which is much easier to hit now) to keep 1 guy snared nicely.

An early Rejuv Pendant is nice. Upgrade to Philo stone for MP regen also and free gold. Upgrade to a SHu Reverie gives HP and 15% more cooldown. It also has the abiliy to click to turbo charge the party's movespeed briefly.

I hear what you are saying, but there are a few other tricks that you are likely to pick up.


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nicosharp

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Senior Member

11-04-2010

it really depends on your team comp and your item build and the players for whether or not Tank Gragas will preform well. AP Gragas is less likely to be reliant on that factor, as he can typically solo kill a squishy or 2. Both are good, AP is probably a little stronger now with the most recent 1sec nerf to bodyslam. barrel roll is definitely stronger and faster. Play what you like to play ultimately. Just try to make sure your pick as gragas will not hurt your team. Remember is his anti aoe, and has no hard CC, he is also considered poke damage unless you fully commit to AP.


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Grovel

Senior Member

11-04-2010

Not trolling, real question: What's your reasoning for picking Gargas at champ select? Bans or just personal preference? Does he synergize especially well with certain lineups or are you just uncannily good with him? Last time I played LoL Gargas was laughably bad and nobody used him. Now I've seen the community divided all over the place about Gargas's role (AP, Tank, AD, a mix, etc). I want to give him a try, but I'm not a strong player and in most cases I feel like I'm better off picking a better champ for the role that I'd use Gargas.

Just curious about your thought process for utilizing Gargas.