High ELO players: Junglestix tips?

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LordJeffe

Senior Member

03-10-2010

So I've played Junglestix a lot in mid-ELO and am pretty used to stomping around with him: solo golem, lay down some wards, rush a Mejai, ganks some dudes, win games.

I think MM decided I was winning too many games, however, because suddenly I'm waiting 5+ minutes for games and going up against level 30s with 400+ wins. I'm not sure if this means that I am "high" ELO now, but I'm certainly higher than I was before, the players I'm up against are much savvier, and I've gone from regularly being a super-carry to regularly being the weakest link (at least for the last three or so games). It's been humbling.

Learned pretty quickly NOT to rush Mejai anymore, but I think I could use some more tips:

1) What do you do when someone goes MIA in a lane? Before I found that they usually went for one of the other two lanes, but now I'm finding that they almost always come for me, and I'm not always so great at responding to it.

2) What's a good item progression for Junglestix? Seems like a lot of guides are out of date, or not so great for higher ELOs.

3) Where are the best places to lay wards? I like to scatter wards around the jungle, but they haven't been helping lately. Case in point: an Eve (ugh) manged to sneak around a web of three wards and jump me while I was soloing ghosts. Maybe that just means I'm unlucky, but maybe it means I need to place my wards better.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

M3MBRAN3

Member

03-10-2010

I've found that in mid-low elo all casters rush mejas and all dps rush a BF sword and then neglect to purchase any defensive items whatsoever. Fiddle plays more of a support role as he doesn't have the burst damage that Ryze / Annie have so stacking AP from the start is not going to be that helpful.

For fiddle my build is usually
mana+2xhp pots
catalyst
sorcerers / mercury
Bansshee
RoA
Abyssal Scepter

Most games will last long enough for you to finish RoA which at that point you will have an extra 1000hp and 90 MR with mercury treads. The only difference with jungling is that I'll just start of with an elixer of brilliance first.

As for wards, placing them in the walkway near dragon / baron works well and in the bushes next to golem.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Brozan

Senior Member

03-11-2010

Strike out of the jungle a bit more and make them more wary of comign to look for you. If a lane goes MIA and you are close, go push that lane. If you aren't close, go push mid.

You can't think defensively as a jungler, you have to think about making them pay for coming at you.

edit:

Alternatively, you can do what I do and just start playing other chars t han your main until you are back in a "laid back" ELO. I know, sounds like I'm gaming the system a bit, but to be honest, I play my main(s) only when I want to play serious, and playing the others helps to keep me down to where I can goof off some.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EasymodeX

Senior Member

03-11-2010

Quote:
3) Where are the best places to lay wards? I like to scatter wards around the jungle, but they haven't been helping lately. Case in point: an Eve (ugh) manged to sneak around a web of three wards and jump me while I was soloing ghosts. Maybe that just means I'm unlucky, but maybe it means I need to place my wards better.
Regular wards don't see through stealth. That aside, setting them in the middle of the river is fine. You can spot the enemy's movements and predict where they will go. There's no reason to hardcore ward your own jungle.

For full ward coverage on the blue team bottom lane, for example, stick 1 ward in the middle of the river at the bottom entrance, and 1 ward in the river at the top entrance. The positioning should also give LOS to the Dragon entrance.

For this location in particular, the bottom ward should be shift north a bit to get some LOS towards the purple team golem. This way you should get a sliver of LOS on your bottom forest entrance as well.

Quote:
You can't think defensively as a jungler, you have to think about making them pay for coming at you.
This is good advice as well. The one pervasive failure of jungling is if you stay in the jungle. It is critical that when you pack a blue and red buff, even if it's at level 3-4, go and harass a lane from the bush -- toss a dark wind, autoattack, fear, whatever. Give your teammates a lane advantage, and make the enemy react to your map control, rather than you reacting to their map control.

At higher elos, the jungle is less of a blind spot for your opponents. They "know" you are there, and intelligent opponents will also know approximately where in the jungle you might be. So, don't be there. If you net some extra cash from an early kill, pick up an oracle elixer to nail enemy wards if you suspect they have them out.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Killakiwi

Senior Member

03-11-2010

Get their blue first and reverse jungle. Gank with red and definately solo dragon at level 4 (1 point in drain, yea its ez)

Meja's is still very strong if picked first, but follow it with a few semi defensive items so you can keep the stacks coming without dying much.

My normal fiddle build is

Tome of AP

First Back:
stealer
Boots

Second Back:
Catalyst

Third Back;
Banshees

Fourth:
Giant belt

Fifth:
blasting
Ap Tome

Last:
Rylai
Sorc boots

After that its pretty much free to customize. I would normally go zhonyas next but customize it as needed. Another key thing is to pretty much always have brilliance elixer on when you know a team fight is coming. With elixer you will find you have 200-350 AP and enough health to survive a team fight even if you initiate with ult.

As to the jungle ganks, generally just speed along the creeps with smite/drain and you be the ganker. If they MIA you have blue/red buff... How do they kill you lol? You should just wreck their face. Also i generally wait like 10 seconds to start jungling to make sure people are in their lanes, no shananigans goin on

Hope it helped.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

VortexMagus

Senior Member

03-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killakiwi View Post
A lot of really helpful tips
This^^^

Remember to rush banshees as second item. Mejai is really all the ap you'll ever need for the first 30 minutes of the game and golem is really all the mana you'll ever need... well... ever. Banshees turns you into one of the most dangerous heroes in the game, as the best counters to fiddle (CC + burst damage) are all reduced or even neutralized completely by this item.

in addition, on jungling safely at level 1:

High level teams will typically toss out clairs or wards if they notice you have a common jungle hero like fiddle or warwick, and often going to their golem first will prevent you from being the easiest fb in the world.

Also, sit slightly behind nearby turret until 1:45 or so seconds in, then walk to golem. By the time you get to golem, golem will have JUST spawned, and smart players who check golem immediately after they spawn and buy will probably already have run back to their lanes by then, not wanting to miss any exp and thinking that you're probably not going to show.

This doesn't help against good clair users or wards placed on your golem, though, which is why we suggest reverse jungling at the beginning - its rare that a team covers both golems with wards and clair, though it does happen occasionally.

I don't like dragoning at level 4, though. It does help your team a great deal and its fairly simple with golem and lizard, but it takes a looooong time with drain at level 1 or 2. By the time you finish, everyone will be a level higher than you and your solo will be several. I'd rather rush my fiddle to six, grab mejai, gank someone down for a stack or two, and then take dragon.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EasymodeX

Senior Member

03-11-2010

Whoa, half my post was cut off.


Regardless, I tend to run Fiddle in the jungle without smite, using 2 HP pots at the start.

Other options include the tome (with smite) for a Mejai rush. Mana crystal + 2hp pots (no smite required) for a Catalyst rush.

Blue potion + hp pots (for lulz). Or Cloth armor + 2x hp pot + ward (not sure if this breaks the starting gold or not).

Note: smite is basically required to take the golem at level 1 with only 1 hp pot. Fiddle can do it without smite if you use 2, but that means you can't start with the AP book.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

VortexMagus

Senior Member

03-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by EasymodeX View Post
Note: smite is basically required to take the golem at level 1 with only 1 hp pot. Fiddle can do it without smite if you use 2, but that means you can't start with the AP book.
This is misinfo. If you start with ap book and one hp pot, a runeless fiddle with drain can take golem at level 1 without using any summoner spells at all.

Killing the two little lizard things with the golem at level 1 is much harder, though. I usually just run away once the golem is dead and let my mana recharge while I head to the next jungle spawn.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ironworker

Member

03-11-2010

Another take on jungling:

Junglestix is good, but you can't expect to do it every game. A lot of heroes will have a hard time going vs.2 early game, so it usually means your towers get knocked down quicker.

Smite is optional but it does increase the speed at which you jungle.

It's a a big decision when you decide to jungle, because Fiddles is also a very good lane pusher, or a solomid hero. If you let another soft carry take mid, you're still doing very well in the 2v2 lanes.

I've done smite jungling quite a bit I find that exhuast is a bit more valuable in late-game team fights when Jax decides to leap on you. Combined with your silence/fear, exhuast gives you one more crowd control skill. Obviously the other summoner is reserved for flash. Smite/Exhuast is a bigger tradeoff than you think, especially when the extra gold gained from Smite cannot directly influence your other 2 skills, Dark Wind and Fear (Yes I do know the AP bonus, but it doesn't increase the general effective of the two spells).

Some people level up drain when they jungle, which will slow Fiddle's effectiveness at dominating early team fights. But I WILL level up drain if the enemy team has hard carries I can dominate early-mid game.

AP book when jungling? I actually buy the HP (!!!) crystal which costs 475 if I do decide to jungle. This allows me to complete Catalyst quicker and contribute earlier. Meijas is useful if the enemy has a soft team and you decide to level up drain.

My personal opinion is the Quints spots should be reserved for +2% Exp Runes. They outclass other runes because a higher level fiddle is simply more effective than a lower level one. Combined with mastery, you can clearly see a difference between you and your enemy when laning and getting exp.

Just points of consideration.

Iron


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LordJeffe

Senior Member

03-11-2010

Thanks for the tips guys. Normally when I jungle I roll Ignite/Flash with a Tome and Mana Pot., go for golems first (if they appear) and then Ancient Golem. (This way, most would-be gankers go back to their lanes isntead of waiting for me). Ignite can be handy for getting a quick kill on a golem or ancient golem -- by the time I begin ganking (level 4+) it's off cooldown again.

These are some pretty good tips, however. I never really thought to rush Banshee's -- normally I rush RoA after Mejai. Banshee's does sound far more useful, however.

I think I might try rolling Exhaust/Flash and rushing Catalyst in the beginning and laying wards in the river and near my golem. Reverse jungling also seems like a decent idea. And if someone comes after me when I don't have my buffs, joining a lane seems like a good enough solution. I never realized that Fiddles doesn't really benefit from pure AP as much as other casters, so that's a good general tip as well -- time to invest in more magic penetration.

Another question: what do you guys do when there's an enemy jungler? (Usually a Warwick). Reverse jungling is kind of difficul then. I usually lay down a ward near my lizard in these matches... any other tips?


12