No Fighting other champions

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Evilpigeon

Adjudicator

08-27-2009

I will say I wasn't suggesting that everyone else laned on one lane for the entire game. I was suggesting that, over time, by ganking three v twos and playing a fluid game that aims to capitalise of dead time you can quite easily counter someone pushing solo by making the lack of numbers and of cohesive templay count. Anyway since when, against a decent team, could you keep track of all five at once? If we just laned rigidly then I'd agree with what you're saying but I'm assuming that people on the non push side aren't playing like that also to use your own example 4v(3 + a tower) is as similar situation to 5v4 and the other two are more than capable of ganking out of the jungle.

I was actually trying to make a fair example though it might not seem that way given we're coming from opposite sides of the argument.


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Jpeg

Senior Member

08-27-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilpigeon View Post
I will say I wasn't suggesting that everyone else laned on one lane for the entire game. I was suggesting that, over time, by ganking three v twos and playing a fluid game that aims to capitalise of dead time you can quite easily counter someone pushing solo by making the lack of numbers and of cohesive templay count. Anyway since when, against a decent team, could you keep track of all five at once? If we just laned rigidly then I'd agree with what you're saying but I'm assuming that people on the non push side aren't playing like that also to use your own example 4v(3 + a tower) is as similar situation to 5v4 and the other two are more than capable of ganking out of the jungle.

I was actually trying to make a fair example though it might not seem that way given we're coming from opposite sides of the argument.
i'd like to thank you for haveing a civil discussion with me.

i do strongly disagree that 4 can't hold of 5 espically under a tower. i think jax could probably hold them all off for 8 min, if he had a couple heals .

i can see our two sides of the argument being the same in some aspect. i think you are saying one person pushing solo doing their own thing puts more pressure on the other 4. while i see it as that one person is loosining up their defense keeping them running around defending you while the other 4 can courdinate between themselves or better yet, counter gank.

[(american) football analogy]
Send the wideout deep down the middle (to make the SS comit), fake a screen to the RB in the flat (to get the LB going the wrong way), and pass to the TE who has sliped between the D for the first down. the first two are simply a distraction to get the defense out of position. This game is all about being in the right place at the right time.
[/analogy]


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Sikwan

Junior Member

08-27-2009

I'm not sure the OP's strategy is bad, for me he can reach quickly lvl 8 - 10 and be very useful for his team. However, he cannot do this all the time, and I'm not sure he have to avoid fight withh Champions.

For me it's a good strategy, but you have to answer if you are harrassed


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Zeero

Senior Member

08-27-2009

during one game my friends and I had a tristana that was a pickup and the rest of us were on vent. This tristana died and got ganked constantly but she just kept pushing her lane right up into the enemies base, busted an inhibitor, and started their need to be more defensive. We were then able to push them back further and actually won. Even though they had way more kills because of this Tristana being easily gankable while pushing solo we still overcame. They let tristana push into their base because we were keeping pressure on them in other lanes as well.

Depending on the team 4v5 is really not that bad in most situations. Sometimes it's damn near impossible but a lot of that is based on player skill on each team and team makeup.


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Gattsu

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Member

08-27-2009

New players are new players, they will learn eventually.. at least he was able to do his job in the game so he was actually useful!


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Mjollnir

Senior Member

08-27-2009

I think pushing offers a lot to a team. Take Sivir for example.... destroys entire packs of minions with her boomerang (or almost as quickly with her auto attacks). She pops her ulti with minions around her and she WILL take a tower unless the other team burns a teleport or is already in the neighborhood. You don't even have to focus solely on one lane. Taking a tower then popping in another lane to help push lessens ganking as the obvious solution. Its not like your other four teammates are afk and the team can constantly spare 2-3 people to kill you and prevent your escape. If the other team DOES constantly send two or three players to combat one, then they're leaving themselves vulnerable. Keep 2-3 enemies occupied as a solo has obvious benefits to your team.


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Evilpigeon

Adjudicator

08-27-2009

@jpg I'm English so I have no idea what you're talking about with the American football :P

I see your point, but I've never seen anyone pull it off, usually the people who just try to push don't know what they're doing and go 0-10-0 and cause the rest of their team a lot of problems...

Also @ Gattsu did I play against you the other day?


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Irony

Senior Member

08-27-2009

I don't think its a bad strategy, but it shouldn't be done the whole game

A balance of pushing/farming and Ganking/Assisting is key


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Jpeg

Senior Member

08-27-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilpigeon View Post
@jpg I'm English so I have no idea what you're talking about with the American football :P

I see your point, but I've never seen anyone pull it off, usually the people who just try to push don't know what they're doing and go 0-10-0 and cause the rest of their team a lot of problems...
the details arn't necessary, it's just basic distraction/divide and conquer type stuff.

we should play sometime


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Teran

Senior Member

08-27-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilpigeon View Post
@Jpg say you manage this here laning tattic sucessfully and push to their base by level 12 or so (reasonable I think) That's two-three towers down, at the same time the rest of your team is likely losing every single team fight they get into and are being out numbered and out pushed on the other lanes - lets say another three or four down, across the three lanes. Who gains the most experience and who is in the better position to win the game as it continues?
If your team is getting bogged down in team battles before level 12 they've already lost. Laning is actually a very good strategy to use against a team that tries to initiate battles early game because while five of them are chasing 1-2 of your team the rest of your team are knocking down towers and inhibitors.

I've ended games 2/5/3 before as Tristana but had 12-15 structure kills in what ended up being a very solid game for my team. It's not always the best strategy but don't under estimate its viability. We were a little bit behind the enemy in kills however we didn't need to win every fight, we just needed to keep from losing 3+ in a fight and ultimately all we had to do was win one fight and the game was effectively handed to us as we pushed hard 2v4 in two lanes... two inhibitors down, game over.