Nunu - AP/Tank vs AD/Tank?

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abuudabuu

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Senior Member

05-04-2011

I know that many people might say "what the noob get out of here nunu ult whole team for half hp ad sucks", but I find that getting my ult off is actually nigh-impossible in a real fight. Yes, the Ice Ball does a lot of damage, but to be honest I always find myself using it more for the slow rather than the damage, or at least the slow is more useful.

Now I forget where I got the idea from, but I remember hearing the idea of AD nunu- Using Blood Boil as a self (or teammate) steroid and proccing Sheen/Trinity Force for reasonable damage. A build like - Cloth Armor + 5 Potions for jungle,

Boots + Madred's Razor

then Wriggles or sell Madred's

Sheen

Itemize an item or two for defense, preferably with HP

Finish Trinity Force

More HP and finish it off with Atma's Impaler, combined with Trinity Force you will have an OK crit rate and more Damage.


The Ice Ball and Absolute Zero then become simply tools to slow the enemy team. In a team fight you will soak a CC from your Carry unless they want their whole team to be slowed for a whole 2.5(?) seconds, and take a reasonable amount of damage at that. The snowball is very useful for chasing and proccing TF, it's on a low CD.

Also-you will be able to take Armor Pen reds while jungling without it being a big hamper to your damage. Consume is true damage so Magic Pen reds aren't that useful jungling.

I played this build once in a game and it worked a lot better than normal AP/Tank Nunu- I never cared whether or not I could ult, and even if it got canceled it wasn't a big deal, I was putting out more damage from Yeti Slaps anyways.

However there are some limitations - Nunu is a melee champion and only has a speed boost/slow to get someone. In a team fight I doubt I could simply walk up to a carry and start wailing on them, and I doubt the other team would actually let white Sasquatch run up to their MVP and kill him.

But when I think about it AD is so much better than AP - No reliance on a long CD ultimate, optimal efficiency (if that makes sense) for Blood Boil, his Base Damage is alright, and your damage is a tad bit more sustained.

So, does it seem like a better idea?


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Adormas

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Senior Member

05-04-2011

Will try...
Seems to make sense.


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DoransTroll

Senior Member

05-04-2011

I prefer AP over AD, unless my team is already very AP heavy.
Nunu's Blood Boil can increase his AS a lot, which is very nice. But as Nunu, I find that I end up zipping in and out of battle much more than staying there to deal damage (he can't really tank that well, and no interrupt means you will be taking massive damage). That's why I prefer AP over AD. But usually I will try to build only bulky AP items (RoA, Rylai) and then top it off with Atma's. My AP is usually quite low, because my main aim is tanking, but I usually pack a decent amount of AD to hurt a lot of people ignore me in fights.


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DarkerStix

Senior Member

05-04-2011

Never, ever, ever, ever. ever go AD with Nunu. It's bad.


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ComradeHX

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Senior Member

05-04-2011

The whole point of your ulti is that it forces the enemy to either throw CC on you to interrupt it or suffer HEAVY damages.

If you build AD, it is much less threatening on the hp bar.

Also, getting the ulti off is easy if your team is coordinated.


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abuudabuu

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Senior Member

05-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoransTroll View Post
I prefer AP over AD, unless my team is already very AP heavy.
Nunu's Blood Boil can increase his AS a lot, which is very nice. But as Nunu, I find that I end up zipping in and out of battle much more than staying there to deal damage (he can't really tank that well, and no interrupt means you will be taking massive damage). That's why I prefer AP over AD. But usually I will try to build only bulky AP items (RoA, Rylai) and then top it off with Atma's. My AP is usually quite low, because my main aim is tanking, but I usually pack a decent amount of AD to hurt a lot of people ignore me in fights.
Yes, if I am tanking I will often do that very same thing, but usually I build Nunu as an off tank. Maybe I didn't really get my point across well enough :/

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC2NASLSledge View Post
Never, ever, ever, ever. ever go AD with Nunu. It's bad.
How so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeHX View Post
The whole point of your ulti is that it forces the enemy to either throw CC on you to interrupt it or suffer HEAVY damages.

If you build AD, it is much less threatening on the hp bar.

Also, getting the ulti off is easy if your team is coordinated.
Yes, the ulti will do that

But I don't play 5v5 ranked much, only Solo Queue (and it's seriously being interrupted by finals) so I find my ult interrupted almost every single time. Much easier to save 1 stun than have have 4 other people coordinate themselves though.

But thanks to all for the thoughts.


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ComradeHX

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Senior Member

05-05-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by abuudabuu View Post
But I don't play 5v5 ranked much, only Solo Queue (and it's seriously being interrupted by finals) so I find my ult interrupted almost every single time. Much easier to save 1 stun than have have 4 other people coordinate themselves though.
You can always start the ulti when everyone is at half hp when enemy is committed to the fight.


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SirCumference

Member

05-06-2011

AD always sounds like a decent thing on him to me but in the end I have found AP to shine more. The problem with AD is that the items you have to get with AD are more expensive for the amount of tankiness they provide and require you to be on top of the opponent. Now I often find myself on top of my opponent with a sunfire cape but at the same time I find myself harrassing with iceball and eating creeps for hp during the harrasing before team fights all the time. That extra AP which improves your heal, Ice ball, and ult damage is just too good compared to what else you get. Besides I never build AP before tankiness. I always get a banshees first and rarely a sunfire first unless I am taking a lot of physical damage. During the laning phase coming back with a negatron or chain armor will greatly improve your tankiness and allow you to iceball/slap your opponent or just iceball.

In short building tanky is more important than AD and AP is better for harrass, burst, and tankiness (due to consume). AD will require you to be in melee range to ever take advantage of the damage it provides as you have no skills that scale off of it at all (blood boil sort of but i use it mostly for speed to catch up to iceball and it boosts your damage for AP as well)


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Aikimiller

Senior Member

05-06-2011

Yeah, the items for AP/tank are better than the items for AD/tank

On the AP/tank side you have Zhonya's, Abyssal, Glacial Shroud (ok, not actually AP but it synergizes better with AP)

On the AD/tank side you have.... Madreds (you don't need it for jungling unless the other team will let you solo dragon every time it spawns). Frozen Mallet (on nunu? No) Atma's (you're not going to be stacking HP).

Just not a lot of good synergy on the AD/tank items for Nunu (or anyone else really, AD/tank items really aren't all that great, but then tanky-dps is considdered bad enough as is, I suppose)


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Urr

Senior Member

05-06-2011

The only problem with trying to AD tank, is that while tanking, you're really only there for your abilities, and Nunu with an Abyssal Scepter is a very powerful thing (after a BV for your main MR, but anyways)

I did something similar to this with a jungle Nunu build, picking up wriggles early and Frozen Mallet late game for the Health, extra slow, and extra push power from auto attacking.

Since he doesn't have any AD scaling, or a very high attack speed, since you're supposed to be blood boiled the whole time, getting his attack speed up to a useful amount even with blood boil, is still a pain, and then you also ignore his easy to use AP ratios

Sure you can keep anyone except Yi/Olaf in range, but if you're playing Nunu as a tank, being able to throw an ice ball at another person to save your carry might be more important.

AD nunu isn't terrible, depending on your team comp, but AP nunu is much easier to build and play
Also, ignore anyone who says your ult does nothing if you go AD,
1. people are inherently terrified of Nunu ult

2. it still has over 1000 base damage at rank 3, which is more damage than most casters (Veigar being the most notable exception, since he can get over 1000 AP anyways) can put out with any one ability

3. If you're a good Nunu player, you've figured out how to get your ult off consistently, which is more important than building AP for it

In other words, GO for it, you need to experiment with the build anyway, can't just mathcraft, Wriggles is great with him, free ward, and even FASTER jungling, plus it makes you able to grab dragon at ~8-9 on your own and hopefully your "item for defense" includes a banshee's veil
good luck, have fun


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