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[Guide] God Tier Aura Sivir

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Fragglerock

Recruiter

03-15-2010

What I mean about relying on your team more than other champs is that you yourself don't bring much to the table. In that team fight, your team has to realize what Sivir is NOT bringing. She is NOT bringing burst damage, and in longer games she is FAR outpaced in dps. She has no slow, no CC at all. She is not tanky, she is not sneaky. If she died in the beginning of the fight its not like she blew out a bunch of damage first. If she dies early she is 90% worthless (we'll assume you popped her ult). Your team has to be cognizant of what they are gaining from her and adjust their approach accordingly. They need to realize that Sivir is not going to save their ass - is not going to stun that guy chasing them or make them invulnerable or heal them.

Sivir brings the best base defense in the game. She brings generally the fastest push.
She beings 24 armor and 24 magic resist so you can spend the money on other things.
She brings lifesteal, attack speed, and armor pen, so you can spend the money on other things.

Essentially, Sivir changes the whole dynamic of the game for your team. How many other champs effect their team's shopping list? She only brings her potential when your team realizes this and plays to it. She is a carry, and needs to be protected, but dying to save her is also counter-productive because shes worthless without you.


Lastly, if the game ends up coming down to team comp, she doesn't synergize with casters.


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Gorets

Member

03-16-2010

@QUICKSLIDE.
Great advice thoughout the thread. And I would LOVE to read the 14 pages of Sivir you talked about earlier. My email is gorets@gmx.com Would really appreciate the reading to become better at the champ as there's no limit to perfection.


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Peldin

Junior Member

03-16-2010

Quote:
First, the damage (and therefore the benefit) is diminishing. If you're using Rico to harass, you're dealing, at best, 78% of your damage to the enemy champ. Next, you're not getting any benefit from your items. Rico is always based on your regular attack damage, even if the first hit crits. Rico is also physical damage, whereas BB is magical.

The biggest difference, though, is that first one. Each additional level of Ricochet helps less than the last. Meanwhile, BB always gets 55 extra damage for each additional level (and, yes, extra mana cost, but that's not a huge deal).
This is right. However, you prefaced this by saying that BB is better to take first. I assume you mean at level 1. Well, isn't it obvious that at level 1, the additional levels of each skill play no effect?
The reason people say to get Ricochet at level 1, is because it is a better skill at level 1. Now at level 3, you should be getting your second point in BB, or your first point in spell shield, but by level 4, you should definitely have 2 points in BB, 1 point in Ricochet, and 1 point in spell shield (unless, like you already stated, you are laning against someone where spell shield has no effect). I don't think there IS any debate over whether to level Rico or BB up past level 1. BB is the obvious winner, but *AT* level 1, Rico is a superior ability in the mid lane.
Obviously if you are doing a 5-man level 1 gank, or even just a 2 or 3-man level 1 fight, then BB is obviously better.
Personally, I don't even choose an abillity at level 1 until the creep way engages, or I know that the other lanes are occupied, especially if their team has a stealthy. I'd rather not die in mid at level 1 by a 3 or 4-man gank just because I didn't get flash, so if I need to throw a quick spell shield on at level 1, I'm prepared.
As for Aura Sivir, I like your starting build. Chalice->Greaves(or merc treads if necessary)->Stark's->Aegis. But I don't really agree with pushing before Aegis. The Aegis really helps your team sustain a push against a good team. Now, if the other team isn't good, yeah you can group up with just starks, OTH, and rally, and knock down a tower pretty quick.
Certain team comps may give you huge problems though, so don't let this guide get you overconfident. The first time I played Aura Sivir was with 2 friends and 2 pugs, and we demolished them. The next time I played Aura Sivir was with 4 friends, but we had no success in pushing.
The opposing team had Gankplank, Fiddlesticks, Ashe, Gragas, and some other hero. I forgot who. I think it was either Ryze or Veigar. Anyway, we tried to push with just the Stark's, but the combined aoe against us was overwhelming. Even when I got the Aegis, we were still taking a lot of damage, and Gragas was able to really mess us up by knocking us away from each other so we could get picked off.
So we had to change our strategy and be more gank oriented. Instead of getting a frozen heart, I decided to opt for more damage. To say Last Whisper and/or Infinity Edge are bad items for Aura Sivir is wrong. You just don't get them until after you get your aura items. Trying to sustain a push isn't going to always work depending on your team comp. That same game, my teammates were Blitzcrank, Gragas, Amumu, and Kassadin. We were much more successful at catching them out of the lane, or hooking one of them out of the lane and quickly turning a 5v5 in to a 5v4. In that situation, your team is going to depend on you to do the damage to quickly kill that one player before their team has time to engage you. Luckily, the Blitz/Gragas combination is pretty OP because we could hook one person while knocking the rest of their team away giving us the 5v4 advantage, or once we got some more damage, we could hook and kill that person quickly, and then Amumu and Kassadin were able to leap on their team when they tried to help.
Suffice it to say, we weren't a bad pushing team, but we weren't a great pushing team, and our push was easily countered by aoe.

On a side note, I tried out the 8/22/0 spec with rally/teleport in contrast to my usual 21/9/0 with flash/teleport. I found the differences pretty interesting.
First off, rally sucks for laning purposes. Of course you can say "oh you can use it to kill the other hero with the extra healing and damage." That's stupid. An exhaust can still get you killed. They can flash away or just move away making your rally nothing but a healing stick for you after hitting them maybe 2-3 times. Also, rally will never save you from a mid gank. Yes, I know. Map awareness and team coordination saves you from mid ganks, but how do you call out a missing person who's been jungling all early game? Or how do you call out a missing stealthy before you bought a ward? Flash is just awesome for that.
Also, Sivir has the smallest range (and today it's getting smaller) of any range hero. That puts her up close and personal in a team fight. So the auras are good. They will try to focus the squishy Sivir who's pretty resilient with Aegis and Chalice, but instead of using Rally, you just flash back, and suddenly they've over-extended in to your team who's demolishing them while they either try to finish you off (good luck catching you with OTH), or they switch targets, in which you turn back and continue beating @$$.
IMO flash is more ideal for Sivir than rally.
As for teleport, I think it's a must have for Sivir. For farming creep, there is no better summoner spell.
As for the spec, I have mixed feelings. Sivir deals a LOT more damage than she takes, so my initial reaction is to reject the defensive tree spec. However, I won't dismiss it that easily. It obviously has it's advantages, and I think in the end, which is better will really depend on team composition. And on that note, I think Aura Sivir still depends on team composition as well, however 70-80% of the time Stark's and Aegis are going to be good chocies.
Sorry for the lengthy post. I've played a couple hundred games as Sivir and just love discussing her.


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Mogri

Senior Member

03-19-2010

Quote:
Peldin:
First off, rally sucks for laning purposes. Of course you can say "oh you can use it to kill the other hero with the extra healing and damage." That's stupid. An exhaust can still get you killed. They can flash away or just move away making your rally nothing but a healing stick for you after hitting them maybe 2-3 times.


But that's exactly what Rally is for in the laning phase. Rally + Teleport + 2 health pots means you are always in lane, forever, until laning ends. That means you're #1 on farming, #1 on experience, and #1 on tower damage. You're guaranteed to have the tower down first against most opponents.

Later on (or if your opponent BP'd early), you'll use Rally for pushing towers. Rally + OTH + a good creep wave takes out half a tower's HP before the other team realizes what's going on.


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Slide

Senior Member

03-19-2010

Quote:
Peldin:
This is right. However, you prefaced this by saying that BB is better to take first. I assume you mean at level 1. Well, isn't it obvious that at level 1, the additional levels of each skill play no effect?
The reason people say to get Ricochet at level 1, is because it is a better skill at level 1. Now at level 3, you should be getting your second point in BB, or your first point in spell shield, but by level 4, you should definitely have 2 points in BB, 1 point in Ricochet, and 1 point in spell shield (unless, like you already stated, you are laning against someone where spell shield has no effect). I don't think there IS any debate over whether to level Rico or BB up past level 1. BB is the obvious winner, but *AT* level 1, Rico is a superior ability in the mid lane.
Obviously if you are doing a 5-man level 1 gank, or even just a 2 or 3-man level 1 fight, then BB is obviously better.


So after reading this part, I came to the conclusion your insane. I read the whole post and realized you arent, but you, in my opinion, are VERY wrong about this.

You are certainly going to have to explain yourself because there is no plausible reason Ricochet could be better then BB at level 1.

As far as creeps go, having BB does damage to the whole creep wave very quickly and lets you pick off the whole wave with smart auto attacks. Ricochet will damage a second creep for 78% of your damage. This will happen on every attack, but its random nature does not help you last hit at level 1 nor does it push harder. As far as the creep wave is concerned BB wins out.

If we are talking VS champions, there is only ONE instance as far as im concerned where Ricochet is even viable at level one and thats if you are facing a melee champ with low survivability early on. Even then its a gamble as you cant be guaranteed your one bounce for low damage is going to even hit the enemy champ. If the enemy comes for you directly, this gives you nothing to fight them off with either.

Lastly, if were talking what we want leveled to 5 ASAP, its BB again. You want that burst as burst is king early game and really, riochet needs damage and attack speed to become really effective and you wont have that at the beginning either.

So please, explain yourself, in great detail.

Quote:
Peldin:

Personally, I don't even choose an abillity at level 1 until the creep way engages, or I know that the other lanes are occupied, especially if their team has a stealthy. I'd rather not die in mid at level 1 by a 3 or 4-man gank just because I didn't get flash, so if I need to throw a quick spell shield on at level 1, I'm prepared.


Completely unneeded. RARELY happens in low level games and in high level games your team will let you know if no one is in lane and you will have clairvoyance on your team to hepl with this. Its BB at level 1 because in every situation, its best. Almost any argument you can come up with to take anything else can be proven wrong pretty easily. I still want to hear what you have to say about ricochet first. You also later say you always take flash so Im really not sure what your saying with this. I dont think flash is the right choice, but you basically contradict yourself. Flash is a crutch. That is all.


Quote:
Peldin:

As for Aura Sivir, I like your starting build. Chalice->Greaves(or merc treads if necessary)->Stark's->Aegis. But I don't really agree with pushing before Aegis. The Aegis really helps your team sustain a push against a good team. Now, if the other team isn't good, yeah you can group up with just starks, OTH, and rally, and knock down a tower pretty quick.


It actually depends on how quickly you get starks. Ive said this countless times now but if you get it early enough and your team didnt feed, yes, you can roll an inhib and the only thing that will stop you is your own teams stupidity. Of course, if you DONT get it early enough (or in some cases fail team comp om your side VS good team comp on theirs, team comp > all) you can run into problems. If you cant get your team in mid with you at level 11 packing starks, chalice and boots, with mids first tower down BEFORE 20 minutes, your opposition is likely strong enough to stop the push. They may not, but it can happen. Conversely if you can get all that ready to roll by 15 minutes, your enemies are going to have one HELL of a time stopping you.

Yes, Aegis helps with pushing, but to wait for it would be stupid. Get starks and try for the push, if you get pushed back, fine, but there is no reason not to try if the game has gone well for your team up to this point.

Quote:
Peldin:

Certain team comps may give you huge problems though, so don't let this guide get you overconfident. The first time I played Aura Sivir was with 2 friends and 2 pugs, and we demolished them. The next time I played Aura Sivir was with 4 friends, but we had no success in pushing.
The opposing team had Gankplank, Fiddlesticks, Ashe, Gragas, and some other hero. I forgot who. I think it was either Ryze or Veigar. Anyway, we tried to push with just the Stark's, but the combined aoe against us was overwhelming. Even when I got the Aegis, we were still taking a lot of damage, and Gragas was able to really mess us up by knocking us away from each other so we could get picked off.
So we had to change our strategy and be more gank oriented. Instead of getting a frozen heart, I decided to opt for more damage. To say Last Whisper and/or Infinity Edge are bad items for Aura Sivir is wrong. You just don't get them until after you get your aura items. Trying to sustain a push isn't going to always work depending on your team comp. That same game, my teammates were Blitzcrank, Gragas, Amumu, and Kassadin. We were much more successful at catching them out of the lane, or hooking one of them out of the lane and quickly turning a 5v5 in to a 5v4. In that situation, your team is going to depend on you to do the damage to quickly kill that one player before their team has time to engage you. Luckily, the Blitz/Gragas combination is pretty OP because we could hook one person while knocking the rest of their team away giving us the 5v4 advantage, or once we got some more damage, we could hook and kill that person quickly, and then Amumu and Kassadin were able to leap on their team when they tried to help.
Suffice it to say, we weren't a bad pushing team, but we weren't a great pushing team, and our push was easily countered by aoe.


This is filler and nonsense as far as Im concerned. First of all, you failing at the this in one instance doesnt mean anything. Hell, you could suck for all I know. Im not saying you do, but you see what I mean. Hell your teammates might have sucked who knows. Lots of things can ALWAYS go wrong and thinking that following ANYTHING to the letter will get you an easy win every time is idiocy. Team comp is > then everything else in this game. I equate comments such as this to "Durr if your facing lots of CC, merc treads is a good buy". Yes, team comp can win or lose you games. regardless of what champ your playing or start your using. Congratz on pointing out the obvious.

Quote:
Peldin:

Also, rally will never save you from a mid gank. Yes, I know. Map awareness and team coordination saves you from mid ganks, but how do you call out a missing person who's been jungling all early game? Or how do you call out a missing stealthy before you bought a ward? Flash is just awesome for that.


Flash is a crutch. You can play without it, you just have to play better. Its also getting anothe range nerf next patch. You keep relying on your crutch thats getting wittled down to nothing and see how well that works for you. Im already used to not having it and not relying on it. Sivir has no trouble escaping ganks with just her skills and defensive spec + dodge runes. You REALLY dont need flash. Just stop making stupid decisions like pushing way out in the middle of nowhere by yourself and you will see you dont need it.

Quote:
Peldin:

Also, Sivir has the smallest range (and today it's getting smaller) of any range hero. That puts her up close and personal in a team fight. So the auras are good. They will try to focus the squishy Sivir who's pretty resilient with Aegis and Chalice, but instead of using Rally, you just flash back, and suddenly they've over-extended in to your team who's demolishing them while they either try to finish you off (good luck catching you with OTH), or they switch targets, in which you turn back and continue beating @$$.
IMO flash is more ideal for Sivir than rally.


Yes you see, flash is your crutch, instead of playing well and staying behind your tank and other teamates waiting for the battle to begin your ush in with the front line and need your crutch to get you out. How about you just dont do that? Auras hae a REALLY long range and so does BB. Whether you miss 2 autoattacks at the beginning of the fight or 2 after you fkash before you reengage does make a difference. One way just doesnt require you have flash and still keeps you alive when your precious flash is on cooldown.

Quote:
Peldin:

As for teleport, I think it's a must have for Sivir. For farming creep, there is no better summoner spell.


Agreed! We have something in common! Woot!

Quote:
Peldin:

As for the spec, I have mixed feelings. Sivir deals a LOT more damage than she takes, so my initial reaction is to reject the defensive tree spec. However, I won't dismiss it that easily. It obviously has it's advantages, and I think in the end, which is better will really depend on team composition. And on that note, I think Aura Sivir still depends on team composition as well, however 70-80% of the time Stark's and Aegis are going to be good chocies.


Certainly does and to be honest its not the ONLY thing that works on Sivir. It is however, invariably tied to this particular build and strat. Not having it does make this strat harder. I dont think you realise how easy the rally flag kill in a creep wave is with a defensive spec. Your oponent takes triple the damage you do from the creep wave and early on, thats a LOT more then a champ does. In any case I just needed to say they are all tied together and running something else will screw with how effective this is.

Quote:
Peldin:

Sorry for the lengthy post. I've played a couple hundred games as Sivir and just love discussing her.


All good, I love this stuff. Sorry if I was a jerk at any point. I just dont take kindly to being told the way I do things is stupid, especially since it obviously does work, works well, and Ive gone to exceptional lengths to describe in GREAT detail the how and why of pretty much every choice and strat this guide offers. Some of the things you said made me think you didnt read the entire thread and to be perfectly honest, I find it disrespectful to then come and tell me Im stupid.

In any case, dont take anything I said badly and please dont bash me, I think, through simple diligence and service to the community if nothing else, I have earned the respect of anyone whos posting in this thread.

Regardless of that, Im still looking forward to your replies so we can discuss further!


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Natures Blitz

Member

03-20-2010

Figured this be the best place to ask for questions about Sivir. I plan on running this build with some friends since I agree it is arguably the strongest build for her to run as.

While in general I agree pretty much with everything said in the guide only question I have is (while required to deal with a melee heavy team) is getting more dodge from ninja tabi or the quint dodge runes a unfavorable plan of of action.

(Diminishing returns will be based off loss % with the build this guide presents)

Dodge % with build: 33.41% i
Dodge % with Quint: 37.45% (.46% Diminishing Return)
Dodge % with Tabi: 43.45% (.96% Diminishing Return)
Dodge % with Quint + Tabi: 46.99% (1.42% Diminishing Return)

All in all on paper to me it looks good, however I"m guessing that it doesn't work out quite that well obviously since your dealing with the scenario of having to face a melee orientated team & that the attack speed does synergize & will stack with the stark's to provide more hp longevity.

While it seems silly to answer my own question better to me to have a definitive response then one I answered myself on the mechanics

Please correct me if I"m wrong on my theory and any other knowledge you might be willing to bestow


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Vijaya

Senior Member

03-20-2010

Two questions: what's the recommended team composition and would it be beneficial to have someone else grab Aegis first for the initial push?

For team comp, I was thinking something that allowed you to sustain pushes would work. Something like Sivir/Alistar/Taric as a base, then having a physical and magical DPS, like Trist and Jax/TF or maybe Nidalee for mega-heals. I considered throwing Soraka in there, too, but I think that the damage would be too low to matter in that case.

My roommate's first champ was Taric and ever since I've started using this guide I've been badgering him about going back to Taric so that we could rock an aura/push team. I was thinking that, if he started with a ruby crystal and laned with someone who has a mana manipulator, it should be possible for him to get an Aegis by the time I have Chalice/Zerk's/Stark's. That would also mean I could use my gold for something else; either a Soul Shroud/Frozen Heart for survival or a Bloodthirster to up my DPS or whatever.

Comments/suggestions are appreciated!


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IrishDoom

Senior Member

03-20-2010

I've been having great success with this build. I only started playing Sivir recently, and I'm now sitting at 20 and 8 with her. (And half of those losses were in situations where my team was down a man or two!) My death totals started out high, but then I switched to the defensive mastery you recommend, and that really helps out early.

One interesting thing about Sivir is learning how to play mid against various opponents. The first time I met a Twitch, he did a number on me. (But then left to go ganking whilst I took his tower....fool.) But I learned. The same thing with the first time I was up against Fiddle. It seems to me that many folks who play mid do so with the plan to leave the lane to gank sometime after 6. People really need to learn that this is a huge mistake against a Sivir. Even if they've killed me 2 or 3 times, my opponent leaving usually leads to a win for my team. Take down mid tower, BP or TP and hit a new lane to push another tower quick. From there things start to snowball, especially once I get Stark's put together. As soon as they start to head to the new lane I'm pushing, I head to a different one.

I'm also finding that though I get few kills with this build, I get a good number of assists.

Now, if you have a caster heavy team makeup, do you just not take Sivir, or build her more for straight up damage?


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Slide

Senior Member

03-20-2010

Always Happy to answer questions.

@Natures Blitz: The Quints are completely viable as a choice. As for boots, they are always situaional. If you make an informed decision during a match to take a particular set of boots, there is nothing wrong with that. If you think that there is little CC on the other team and youd rather the dodge then attack speed, go for it!!

@Vijaya: Your definitely on the right track. Team make up is pretty standard just a little more DPS focused. Generally 2 DPS, 1 Tank, 1 Support/Mage. You can certainly go more DPS if they can cover the other roles though (Tough DPs'ers and Utility DPS'ers).

As for the Aegis remark, abso-friggin-lutely. Best thing a teamamte can do for that push aside from wrack up 10 kills before it happens is pick up auras! Tanks with aegis, supports with soul shroud hell even a teamate having a mana manipulator helps a LOT on the first early push. Starks is definitely the premiere aura item but the fact that auras are morepowerful the earlier you get them holds true for all of them. Doubly so if your stacking them.

Yup Taric and Alistar are phenomenal with Sivir. You said it already so I wont repeat it as your obviously on the right track. Your fill ins are great too. The only thing I would point out is that if you have DPS'ers who can build either AP or DPS (Like Nid and TF) they should absolutely go with AD builds. On a side note, its pretty freaking insane what TF's new passive does to Sivirs build order. I find myself being able to afford an item one trip earlier if hes in the game and I last hit really well. Its amazing how often another 50 gold lets you buy one more thing before you go back out. So Im a big fan of TF as a teamate for Sivir. Tristana works great as well. She goes real bonkers under your ult, starks and her +atk speed% ability. Any good DPSer will do though and Ive found that for the push having tough fighter types (Jax, Udyr, Malphite, Nasus, poppy, blitzcrank, etc) is a HUGE benefit. They keep the enemy away from you in teamfights (ever so important now with the reduced autoattack range) and really put the hurt out on towers and champions when under your auras. The increased DPS + Lifesteal makes them even more durable then normal (throw in aegis on that early push and youd really be rocking).

In any case, you have the right idea.

@IrishDoom:

Im glad this has helped you and youve been kicking some face in with it. I completely agree, knowledge of each champion and how they work is essential to becoming a great player. Knowing when and what your lane oponent can do to you makes all the difference between winning or losing the battle for mid.

What you brought up about Sivir is just another example of this. You cant leave a lane undefended against Sivir. You will lose a tower very quickly. People often get to cought up in getting tons of kills and place a ganker mid against Sivir. This is the best news Sivir players can have. If you know how they work, you can easily keep them from killing you and outfarm them at the same time. You then just wait for them to inevitably run off to pad their stats and you take out the game objective....err tower.

What you did from then on is EXACTLY what you want to do. Those first towers are easy meat for Sivir and 2 friends. Its also 500 gold to your team. Pushing the first tower of each lane is an essential part of the strategy and makes a huge difference in the success of that early push. Not only is it a sweet gold bonus, it gives you the option to push whichever lane you want. Mid is best as its shortest (and if the enmy comes at you straggling in one or two at a time, you can kill them and take the inhib before all 5 respawn and have any chance of stopping you. Sometimes though, you can pull a quick one on them if they are trying to counter push (they try to push bot to get your first tower, your team pushes, much faster, through 2 remaining towers on top and the inhib).

Yup Sivir is an assist monster, not a killer. In fact, due to your supreme farming, if you have the option, let someone else get the killing blow, you flat out dont need the extra change as badly as they do.

If your in team select and your staring at 4 casters/mages/ap support heroes, Sivir really isnt a good choice. Sivir, at the end of the day is a support carry. She supports your carry and carries through support. If you cant support anyone with your abilities, your not nearly as effective as you could be. So, I wouldnt think Sivir to be a good choice for such a lineup and if you do take her, you would need to severely modify this build. Probably not the first 3 items, but certainly the last 3.


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IrishDoom

Senior Member

03-20-2010

Thanks so much for the response. I do play a fairly good Blitz or Morgana, so I have that in my back pocket if Sivir isn't the best choice.

I do have one other question I forgot to mention in my previous post.

I realize that what separates a "good" Sivir from a "great" Sivir player is the effective use of the shield. While I am trying to use it whenever I can, I don't believe I'm getting the full benefit. More often than not I feel like I'm guessing what the opponent is going to do. Sometimes it works, sometimes I end up with a wasted shield and the loss of mana. Now when using your shield, do you use audio cues, or do you look for a particular animation, or what is it you do? Any advice on shielding effectively would be appreciated!