Advanced - Guide for team work/fight

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zoahr

Member

05-03-2011

Team composition gives an advantage even before games start. The basic setting is something like one AP and one AD carry, a tank, an offtank and a jungler. Support is also needed considering the enemy team in ranked. But what really matters is not that basic setting, it's the chemistry between your pick and your teammates pick. Example: If someone take Ezreal, one of the better choice would be a disabler, since this is something Ezreal lack.

This thread is about what kind of champions you are having to have the right "chemistry" necessary for your team to prevail. Before classifying, I'd make a quick justification on some terms the community is using and what I will be using.

AD - Attack Damage. Use physical items and basic attack to kill, skills mostly deal physcial damage.
AP - Ability Power. Use Ability Power items and mostly their champions abilities to kill.

Community:

Carry - A carry is mainly someone that, upon obtaining a certain item set, will become so deadly that they will annihilate, in good position, the enemy team. Although, this is vastly used to describe AD and AP damage focused champions, the "carry" could be anyone with 2-3 damage skills, when equipped with the right items and being fed beyond redemption.

Tank - A tank is someone that will be there to take damage while your damage dealer does their job. They are in the front lines and must not fall for the sake of your team. They focused in damage protection and Health items.

Offtank - An offtank is like a tank, with a mixed items set. They can take over the tank when needed, but will focus into damaging the enemy.

Me:

Burst - Burst champions are those who can, in a timely manner, dispose of most champions upon reaching a certain level (mostly 6). They will damage so quickly that you will die even before saying : "OMG, what happened?" without any damage items yet. Bursts can be either AP or AD depending on the champion. Those are the carry called by the community.

Burst champions focus in damage items.

Pressure
- Pressure champions are the ones on the front line focusing the enemy "carry", so they don't damage your team. If letting a pressure champion on the carry for too long, he will kill it.

Pressure Champions focus in tanking items, Health items and damage items.

Disabler - A disabler is someone that has a skill that will either remove someone from a fight or root them into position. A disabler main's objective is to help the "carry". He will root the enemy champion so the burst champion can kill it. In team fight, the disabler should be next to the carry, and help them not take the damage by disabling the enemy pressure. If your team's carry is out of danger, a disabler focus on the enemy carry so they don't do any damage. In an escape manner, the disabler should be the last to run (so he can root the enemy), and in pursuit, should be the first to go.

Disablers focus in cooldown reduction and tanking/health items.

Support
- Support characters excel in one thing only : Denying kills. A support champion is there to watch upon both pressure and carry, so that they can do their jobs. A support in a good player's hands win games.

Support focus mainly in cooldown reduction items and health items.

Bruiser - Bruiser Champions need items to do well. They only prevail when their damage output per second is considerable. They attack and suddenly kills enemies without the burst from burst champions. Giving enough time, AD bruiser can kill any champions just with basic attacks.

Bruisers focus in attack speed and Damage items.

These champions are what they should main in my opinion. Note: When not saying what kind of burst, they can do both. The main focused is said first, while the other is role they can excel, but in lesser importance than their first.

Akali - AP Burst
Alistar - Disabler
Amumu - Pressure, Disabler
Anivia - AP Burst, Disabler
Annie - AP Burst, Disabler
Ashe - AD Bruiser, Disabler
Blitztank - Disabler
Brand - AP Burst, Disabler
Caitlyn - AD Burst, Disabler
Cassiopeia - AP Burst, Disabler
Cho'Gath - Pressure, Disabler, AP Burst
Corki - AD Burst/Bruiser
Dr. Mundo - Pressure
Evelynn - Disabler, Burst
Ezreal - Burst
Fiddlesticks - AP Burst
Galio - AP Bruiser, Disabler
Gangplank - AD burst
Garen - Pressure
Gragas - AP burst
Hermerdinger - AP burst, disabler
Irelia - AD Burst, disabler
Janna - Support, Disabler
Jarvan - Pressure, Disabler
Jax - AD bruiser, Pressure
Karma - Support, AP burst
Karthus - AP Burst
Kassadin - AP Burst
Katarina - AP Burst
Kayle - Support, Bruiser
Kennen - AP Burst, Disabler
Kog'Maw - AD Bruiser
Leblanc - AP Burst
Lee Sin - Pressure, Support
Lux - AP Burst, Disabler, support
Malphite - Pressure, Disabler
Malzahar - AP Burst, Disabler
Maokai - Pressure, Disabler
Master Yi - AD Bruiser, Pressure
Miss Fortune - AD Bruiser
Mordekaiser - Pressure
Morgana - AP Burst, Disabler
Nasus - Pressure
Nidalee - Burst, Support
Nocturne - AD Bruiser
Nunu - Pressure, AP Burst
Olaf - Pressure, AD Bruiser
Pantheon - AD Burst, Disabler
Poppy - AP Burst, Disabler, Pressure
Rammus - Pressure, Disabler
Renekton - Pressure, Disabler
Rumble - Pressure, AP Bruiser
Ryze - AP Burst
Shaco - AD Bruiser
Shen - Disabler, Support
Singed - Disabler, Pressure
Sion - AP Burst, Disabler
Sivir - AD Bruiser
Sona - Support, AP Burst, Disabler
Soraka - Support, AP Burst
Swain - AP Burst
Taric - Disabler, Support
Teemo - AD Bruiser
Tristana - AD Bruiser
Trundle - Pressure
Tryndamere - AD Burst
Twisted Fate - AP Burst or AD bruiser, disabler
Twitch - AD Burst
Udyr - Pressure, Disabler
Urgot - AD Burst/Bruiser
Veigar - AP Burst, disabler
Vladimir - AP Burst
Warwick - Pressure, Disabler
Xin Zhao - AD Burst
Zilean - Support, AP Burst

Top of each category (considering factor in team fight. Example: Annie is better than Kassadin, altho Kassadin deals more damage, because she is also a disabler).

Pressure: Cho'Gath, Amumu, Renekton.
AP Burst: Anivia, Leblanc, Annie
AD Burst: Tryndamere, Xin Zhao, Corki
Bruisers: Ashe, Teemo, Caitlyn
Support: Janna, Zilean, Soraka
Disabler: Bliztank, Taric, Alistar

Team Composition:

So, in the end, a good team should be composed with at least one AP burst and at least an AD bruiser/burst. They also need 2 pressure, 3 Disabler, 1 support.
Remember, this is solely the team composition. Victory depends on many other factors.
The main is the position. No Burst damage should be up front. Disabler should not chase when there is a pressure nearby. Pressure should know how to aim, don't go for the other pressure. This is why champions like Blitztank and Singed excels, because both can mess up the position of the enemy.

Another is the laning phase. A team that excels in the laning phase will most likely win. In a 5v5, there is 4 lanes in the laning phase. Jungle is also a lane phase without the enemy. If your team allow the enemy jungle, then they will win the jungle lane.

Other strategy is the push disabler. Example: If you let a top solo, and he is also a disabler. That solo could push his lane then go mid trying to disable the enemy mid. In bottom lane, if there is a disabler, same thing.

Jungler should be aware of the 3 current lanes. If he is in the top jungle, before going to the other side of the jungle, look if the enemy on top is pushing too hard. And vice versa.

I hope this guide helps you in some way.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Nuhliepoo

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-03-2011

nice


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lizto

Senior Member

05-03-2011

Nope. Burst =/= DPS.

Shaco is a bruiser but caitlyn, tf are burst?

Disablers? Xin isnt considered one in this guide, nor is teemo. nor shaco, nor nocturne, nor kassadin nor fiddles, nor leblanc nor morgana nor nasus nor swain nor soraka nor jax. And thats only counting most of the ones that have nonslow CC that you just didnt count as disablers. Id prefer most of the disables from most of these guys than disables like say...Renekton's 0.75 (1.5 with fury) stun.

Im just concerned at some of the things you said here, even though the idea is right, people need to pick to synergise with allies and cover up their weaknesses


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Zoahr

Member

05-03-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizto View Post
Nope. Burst =/= DPS.

Shaco is a bruiser but caitlyn, tf are burst?

Disablers? Xin isnt considered one in this guide, nor is teemo. nor shaco, nor nocturne, nor kassadin nor fiddles, nor leblanc nor morgana nor nasus nor swain nor soraka nor jax. And thats only counting most of the ones that have nonslow CC that you just didnt count as disablers. Id prefer most of the disables from most of these guys than disables like say...Renekton's 0.75 (1.5 with fury) stun.

Im just concerned at some of the things you said here, even though the idea is right, people need to pick to synergise with allies and cover up their weaknesses
Shaco is not a burst, since he also depends on items, while caitlyn, without items, can dish out lots of dmg and potentially kill a target at lv 6. When I said TF bursts, I was thinkin about AP burst. But this is no his solely possible build since he can also be a bruiser like you said. It shall be corrected.

Disabler like I mentionned are people that instantly remove someone from killing carry. Xin can certainly knock up, after three hits. That is why Caitlyn isnt a disabler either. The fear is nerfed and sometimes it let it goes toward the carry anyway, silence is not a disable in my book. I forgot about Morgana. Jax need the dodge. It is not a reliable disable. Renketon's stun is weak, but he can instantly do it with a dash, helping the carry and put pressure.

Disabler role is to help the carry.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

daiwai

Senior Member

05-03-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoahr View Post
Team composition gives an advantage even before games start. The basic setting is something like one AP and one AD carry, a tank, an offtank and a jungler. Support is also needed considering the enemy team in ranked. But what really matters is not that basic setting, it's the chemistry between your pick and your teammates pick. Example: If someone take Ezreal, one of the better choice would be a disabler, since this is something Ezreal lack.

This thread is about what kind of champions you are having to have the right "chemistry" necessary for your team to prevail. Before classifying, I'd make a quick justification on some terms the community is using and what I will be using.

AD - Attack Damage. Use physical items and basic attack to kill, skills mostly deal physcial damage.
AP - Ability Power. Use Ability Power items and mostly their champions abilities to kill.

Community:

Carry - A carry is mainly someone that, upon obtaining a certain item set, will become so deadly that they will annihilate, in good position, the enemy team. Although, this is vastly used to describe AD and AP damage focused champions, the "carry" could be anyone with 2-3 damage skills, when equipped with the right items and being fed beyond redemption.

Tank - A tank is someone that will be there to take damage while your damage dealer does their job. They are in the front lines and must not fall for the sake of your team. They focused in damage protection and Health items.

Offtank - An offtank is like a tank, with a mixed items set. They can take over the tank when needed, but will focus into damaging the enemy.

Me:

Burst - Burst champions are those who can, in a timely manner, dispose of most champions upon reaching a certain level (mostly 6). They will damage so quickly that you will die even before saying : "OMG, what happened?" without any damage items yet. Bursts can be either AP or AD depending on the champion. Those are the carry called by the community.

Burst champions focus in damage items.

Pressure
- Pressure champions are the ones on the front line focusing the enemy "carry", so they don't damage your team. If letting a pressure champion on the carry for too long, he will kill it.

Pressure Champions focus in tanking items, Health items and damage items.

Disabler - A disabler is someone that has a skill that will either remove someone from a fight or root them into position. A disabler main's objective is to help the "carry". He will root the enemy champion so the burst champion can kill it. In team fight, the disabler should be next to the carry, and help them not take the damage by disabling the enemy pressure. If your team's carry is out of danger, a disabler focus on the enemy carry so they don't do any damage. In an escape manner, the disabler should be the last to run (so he can root the enemy), and in pursuit, should be the first to go.

Disablers focus in cooldown reduction and tanking/health items.

Support
- Support characters excel in one thing only : Denying kills. A support champion is there to watch upon both pressure and carry, so that they can do their jobs. A support in a good player's hands win games.

Support focus mainly in cooldown reduction items and health items.

Bruiser - Bruiser Champions need items to do well. They only prevail when their damage output per second is considerable. They attack and suddenly kills enemies without the burst from burst champions. Giving enough time, AD bruiser can kill any champions just with basic attacks.

Bruisers focus in attack speed and Damage items.

These champions are what they should main in my opinion. Note: When not saying what kind of burst, they can do both. The main focused is said first, while the other is role they can excel, but in lesser importance than their first.

Akali - AP Burst
Alistar - Disabler
Amumu - Pressure, Disabler
Anivia - AP Burst, Disabler
Annie - AP Burst, Disabler
Ashe - AD Bruiser, Disabler
Blitztank - Disabler
Brand - AP Burst, Disabler
Caitlyn - AD Burst, Disabler
Cassiopeia - AP Burst, Disabler
Cho'Gath - Pressure, Disabler, AP Burst
Corki - AD Burst/Bruiser
Dr. Mundo - Pressure
Evelynn - Disabler, Burst
Ezreal - Burst
Fiddlesticks - AP Burst
Galio - AP Bruiser, Disabler
Gangplank - AD burst
Garen - Pressure
Gragas - AP burst
Hermerdinger - AP burst, disabler
Irelia - AD Burst, disabler
Janna - Support, Disabler
Jarvan - Pressure, Disabler
Jax - AD bruiser, Pressure
Karma - Support, AP burst
Karthus - AP Burst
Kassadin - AP Burst
Katarina - AP Burst
Kayle - Support, Bruiser
Kennen - AP Burst, Disabler
Kog'Maw - AD Bruiser
Leblanc - AP Burst
Lee Sin - Pressure, Support
Lux - AP Burst, Disabler, support
Malphite - Pressure, Disabler
Malzahar - AP Burst, Disabler
Maokai - Pressure, Disabler
Master Yi - AD Bruiser, Pressure
Miss Fortune - AD Bruiser
Mordekaiser - Pressure
Morgana - AP Burst, Disabler
Nasus - Pressure
Nidalee - Burst, Support
Nocturne - AD Bruiser
Nunu - Pressure, AP Burst
Olaf - Pressure, AD Bruiser
Pantheon - AD Burst, Disabler
Poppy - AP Burst, Disabler, Pressure
Rammus - Pressure, Disabler
Renekton - Pressure, Disabler
Rumble - Pressure, AP Bruiser
Ryze - AP Burst
Shaco - AD Bruiser
Shen - Disabler, Support
Singed - Disabler, Pressure
Sion - AP Burst, Disabler
Sivir - AD Bruiser
Sona - Support, AP Burst, Disabler
Soraka - Support, AP Burst
Swain - AP Burst
Taric - Disabler, Support
Teemo - AD Bruiser
Tristana - AD Bruiser
Trundle - Pressure
Tryndamere - AD Burst
Twisted Fate - AP Burst or AD bruiser, disabler
Twitch - AD Burst
Udyr - Pressure, Disabler
Urgot - AD Burst/Bruiser
Veigar - AP Burst, disabler
Vladimir - AP Burst
Warwick - Pressure, Disabler
Xin Zhao - AD Burst
Zilean - Support, AP Burst

Top of each category (considering factor in team fight. Example: Annie is better than Kassadin, altho Kassadin deals more damage, because she is also a disabler).

Pressure: Cho'Gath, Amumu, Renekton.
AP Burst: Anivia, Leblanc, Annie
AD Burst: Tryndamere, Xin Zhao, Corki
Bruisers: Ashe, Teemo, Caitlyn
Support: Janna, Zilean, Soraka
Disabler: Bliztank, Taric, Alistar

Team Composition:

So, in the end, a good team should be composed with at least one AP burst and at least an AD bruiser/burst. They also need 2 pressure, 3 Disabler, 1 support.
Remember, this is solely the team composition. Victory depends on many other factors.
The main is the position. No Burst damage should be up front. Disabler should not chase when there is a pressure nearby. Pressure should know how to aim, don't go for the other pressure. This is why champions like Blitztank and Singed excels, because both can mess up the position of the enemy.

Another is the laning phase. A team that excels in the laning phase will most likely win. In a 5v5, there is 4 lanes in the laning phase. Jungle is also a lane phase without the enemy. If your team allow the enemy jungle, then they will win the jungle lane.

Other strategy is the push disabler. Example: If you let a top solo, and he is also a disabler. That solo could push his lane then go mid trying to disable the enemy mid. In bottom lane, if there is a disabler, same thing.

Jungler should be aware of the 3 current lanes. If he is in the top jungle, before going to the other side of the jungle, look if the enemy on top is pushing too hard. And vice versa.

I hope this guide helps you in some way.
Have.My.Babies. This should be mandatory on Elementz Tier list whenever he remakes it


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RawrCrono

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-04-2011

You made a entry about "Tanks", but never assigned that title to a single person


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

dslg604t

Junior Member

05-06-2011

I can't believe someone quoted the whole thing >.<

Anyway, I have to disagree with your definition of a tank. You said that their job is to take damage for the team. To me a tank is someone who tries to draw attention through disruption or to initiate. Amumu for example has his ult and a "(semi-)permanent aoe". Shen and Rammus both literally force you to attack them. So basically, rather than taking the damage for your team, my belief is that the tank attempts to minimize the damage taken by your team as a whole (I hope you have more armor/mres than your team).

Also, pressure seems to match the communitys idea of tanky dps.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

EatsBlood

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

05-06-2011

I disagree with a lot of this. Many of the champions you have as burst are not. Karthas is the first that jumped out at me. He's surely dps, but except for his ult every few minutes, he does not do any burst damage. Compared to Annie or Brand who can kill you in a flash, Karthas has no such ability.

When you say Disabler, you almost mean Initiate, but then don't quite. Pressure means anticarry. Many of these terms exist already, just not in your oddly perverse usage. You don't even address the need for ranged vs melee champs in team balance. You don't mention tanks with initiates vs tanks without that require an initiate to round them out. You say your "pressure" champ should focus the carry... guess what? Everyone should focus the carry.

This is a mix of jumbled ideas, unnecessary jargon, and confusing advice.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Etherimp

Senior Member

05-06-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by EatsBlood View Post
I disagree with a lot of this. Many of the champions you have as burst are not. Karthas is the first that jumped out at me. He's surely dps, but except for his ult every few minutes, he does not do any burst damage. Compared to Annie or Brand who can kill you in a flash, Karthas has no such ability.

When you say Disabler, you almost mean Initiate, but then don't quite. Pressure means anticarry. Many of these terms exist already, just not in your oddly perverse usage. You don't even address the need for ranged vs melee champs in team balance. You don't mention tanks with initiates vs tanks without that require an initiate to round them out. You say your "pressure" champ should focus the carry... guess what? Everyone should focus the carry.

This is a mix of jumbled ideas, unnecessary jargon, and confusing advice.

Agreed.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ironblades

Senior Member

05-06-2011

shouldn't anivai be considered support. She has denied me more kills then zilean especially when anivia is on my team

overall you played the shell game. You lumped all the AD carries under bruisers and shifted bruisers to Pressure. Took out the category of tanks and put in disabler. And left support the same.


12