As Trist, how do you handle heimer in mid?

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Ashiver

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Senior Member

03-08-2010

Thanks guys for the advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimoot View Post
If you can convince a Morgana to be chosen (not a bad idea) then she can just AoE the group to death and then go back to her lane or just solo mid herself

(just a suggestion don't need a firing squad to shoot down my opinion )
I think this is sound but you never know what the enemy line up is going to be at blind pick though. I do think being able to aoe ground would be a huge advantage to taking out the turrets. We had an Anivia, and I asked her to come help out, but honestly his rockets got me before she was level 6.

@ Mbirk
I grabbed Dorans first, I generally do. The extra health often saves me from gank attempts, and the 6% lifesteal is usually all I need to have staying power. I also grabbed a heal pot. My next item was a null talisman, and at that point I was still getting hit for 225. Even with a scepter, if I figure I do about 60 damage at that point to minions lets say, that's 7.2 gained health a shot, 32 shots to negate one rocket. CD on Rocket was lower than 20 secs because he definitely reduced it, but even at 20 seconds my atk speed isn't high enough to get 32 shots off in that time even if there were always a minion for me to shoot (which there isn't obviously). Granted I have a little natural regen, but I'm pretty sure I'd still be way under. I was prioritizing Q and E to hold him off, I only picked up 1 W. He never was foolish enough to even be close enough to rocket jump -->flash --> buster shot him to the turret, and he did not seem squishy enough for that to kill him anyway and had flash himself. Even if I rocket jumped on top of him and burned exhaust and hit Q, I'm positive he would have lived. I'm not dodging a grenade at point blank. Your wraith advice seems good though, I had never considered that I could be farming those at the same time as mid if I have enough points in rocket jump.

@ People saying he'd oom, he didn't. He had a Meki pendant as his first item and had clarity. Don't know about runes or masteries obviously, but as far as regen was concerned he had plenty. Plus whenever I was forced to back out or he killed me, he could return to base to regen and buy, which he did more often than push the turret.

Most of my seals are offensively dedicated as are my glyphs. Maybe I should consider grabbing a little hp regen or magic resist in runes. It's also possible this guy was 30 with full tier 3 runes. I should have checked I suppose. Myself being 20 or so at the time that would explain a lot as I didn't feel outplayed so much as countered. There are also some other things I could have tried I suppose, like being more aggressive immediately after he rockets.


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Razerwind

Senior Member

03-08-2010

It's funny how people are like "just kill his turrets." Well no ****. But turret Heimers aren't the problem; as a matter of fact they're a pushover as Trist or any ranged champ. But Heimers who know how to play (rocket Heimers) are a pain as anyone. I don't care who you are, a rocket Heimer WILL screw you over at mid if they take mana regen up front.

I don't know what to tell you besides I feel your pain. Lifesteal? They can eat through that easily. Hp regen? same. Potions? Maybe, if you buy ****ing 10 of them to start off. Rocket Heimer can pretty much only be countered by a healing class like Nidalee.

Another way is for your team to constantly send down a gank from top or bot, but even then, a rocket Heimer can simply watch his back and if his team calls MIA then even that won't work.

I've been arguing about his OP rockets for a while now. Most teammates call you a noob for having trouble with Heimer, but the truth is that most Heimers go spam turret set up which IS easy to counter.

This isn't really advice but more of a "I know what you mean" post.


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Azing

Senior Member

03-08-2010

The trick is since you know hes going to use rockets, jump in and beat the **** out of him. His CDs are long specially on his rocket so once he uses it your free to reign down on him. Just dodge his grenade and you should be able to make up for the damage he caused you.


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Vienna

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03-08-2010

The silliest thing people can do is to not adapt to a situation. Tristana will NOT always be the one in control, and a competent Heimerdinger is one of those lanes. If you expect to try to out lane and kill him, you'll probably die trying. I would focus on your superior last hitting ability to try to out-cs him in the early game so you can build up a respectable foundation to progress later on, even if it means not shutting a person down early. If you're really adamant about it, call in a gank. If you find yourself outclassed, maybe call in a healer (Alistar is a great counter to Heimer) or a lane switch.


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Ráisa

Senior Member

03-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornsoul View Post
I will tell you what you can do in order to eliminate heimer as a problem. I deally if I see heimer at the loading screen "I generally play Ashe" I will start with a longsword and a healing potion. When I play ashe my yellow runes are mp5/level. I will buy and quickly go to mid as most heimers will get there fast in order to ensure they have both of their turrets setup before your creeps get there. Spam volley on his turrets until you hear the 30s to minion spawn. It doesnt matter if heimer does some damage to you, as long as you kill 1 or both turrets your in the money. Bluepill back and if you went back at the 30s announcement you should be able to follow the minons back down. If you killed both turrets you should have 30g, wait for the extra 5g and buy a second healing potion.

When you get there do your best to last hit, and spam volley trying to hit turrets as #1 priority and heimer as second. If you hit any creeps its a bonus but not a big deal. You want to damage him and force him to use potions and you want his turrets to die. He is still low level at this point so your not going to be missle/nade spammed yet. I ideally what you want to do is get around 800g or so before your forced to go back. This will allow you to buy madreds razor and the rejuv bead. The key thing is that you now have madreds razor, the proc on madreds will hit heimers turrets for 500, at lower levels instantly destroying them. Again spam volley as much as you can, your goal now is to make heimer run back, when he runs back take pot shots at his turrets, trying to proc madreds. Once you have 550~ gold go back and upgrade your rejuv bead to emblem of valor. Now whenever you get a madreds proc you will gain a large amount of health from the lifesteal, and you have a nice MP5 boost. I would focus on getting magic resist boots etc at this point. Since Tristana doesnt have volley im not sure how well this plan would work for her but you do have Rapid Fire so it may end up working for her as well. You could start with vamp scepter and upgrade to emblem then make madreds, that might work easyier for her.

A good Heimer never takes Turrets first, its all about the rockets and nades. Ashes are funny to mid against with heimer, they are so squishy.


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bc87

Senior Member

03-08-2010

wits end


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Vienna

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Senior Member

03-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorrrrrge View Post
A good Heimer never takes Turrets first, its all about the rockets and nades. Ashes are funny to mid against with heimer, they are so squishy.
I consider myself a good Hemier, and I take a point of Turrets first for map awareness.


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xrats

Senior Member

03-09-2010

I dont see why Tristana should solo mid since there are much better choices for there.And no,Tristana is not one of the best soloers out there.There are others much better.Who said that Tristana owns in mid?And that only gho gath and teemo can counter her?Teemo is fine vs trist.Have you ever played for example vs a good karthus and you had no problem?


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Nucmam

Member

03-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by xrats View Post
I dont see why Tristana should solo mid since there are much better choices for there.And no,Tristana is not one of the best soloers out there.There are others much better.Who said that Tristana owns in mid?And that only gho gath and teemo can counter her?Teemo is fine vs trist.Have you ever played for example vs a good karthus and you had no problem?

Because usually ranged characters who can gank or carry mid-end game take mid. Rarely does a melee take mid some do ok but rarely.

As for your other comments I don't know where your getting it from. I've played every char mid the hardest ones are Annie, Teemo, and Anivia. Karthas is good but his lay waste is a no brainer to dodge.


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KaiTo1520

Member

03-09-2010

Well,,, Tryst's skills doesn't cost that much mana too,,, so i spam 3rd then attack then run back... Slow Boil as people call it... if he shoots rockets just lifesteal creeps... tryst has the best range... i build all 3 skills at first 3 levels, then pump 3rd skill then jump...anyway,,,if he's below 50%, i flash close 3rd skill, hit, jump, hit... tryst deals faster damage...besides heimer dies easily early game...then when you get ulti gank bot or top...