Masteries Understood! Gold Pricing for most masteries...

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Kamaro

Senior Member

05-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewAkk View Post
Defensive is NOT a great jungle tree
Jungle Olaf and Jungle Udyr beg to differ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewAkk View Post
Evasion is a scary bad talent, made only slightly decent because it has Nimbleness under it. Not only that, but dodge is dodgy and stacks multiplicatively. Also, Nimbleness is only worth 242 IF you dodged someone, which means you need to spend a lot of runes and points into dodge (and probably be Jax).
Evasion/Nimbleness is also excellent on Udyr as he also gets quite a bit of dodge from his innate when he stance dances.


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Draktharr

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Master Recruiter

05-01-2011

Was looking for a guide like this

ty again


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HunterHagen

Senior Member

05-01-2011

You'd make an excellent QA Tester, if not more than that.


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AndrewAkk

Junior Member

05-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero47 View Post
Seeing as you did the number crunching would you agree that the CDR from utility is so much that it makes utility superior? (especially on champs that go 9/0/21).
I think it depends how much a character

a) values CDR (an Annie or LeBlanc shouldn't care too much)

b) needs CDR (there's a total of 14 end-game CDR recipes, making it easier for some champs to max CDR without it)

It's not the only superior build I think


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AndrewAkk

Junior Member

05-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamaro View Post
Jungle Olaf and Jungle Udyr beg to differ.



Evasion/Nimbleness is also excellent on Udyr as he also gets quite a bit of dodge from his innate when he stance dances.
Ah Thanks! I will update my comments to better reflect Udyr. He is pretty unique.

Also Olaf and Amumu etc, need to spend into Defensive (since they tank), so Defensive Mastery is decent, it just doesn't nearly compare to the offensive mastery cost for cost, and holds up worse against hard hitters like Golem, Lizard and Dragon who you want to mitigate the most damage from.


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UknowsI

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Senior Member

05-01-2011

Very nice post. I've been doing similar calculations myself but only to compare two masteries and not the whole tree. Looks like the utility tree is mostly an all or nothing tree. I think the movement speed is a bit undervalued, but the early masteries seems underwhelming.

I don't agree with your comment that dodge being added multiplicatively makes it less scaling than armour. If it was added additively it would in fact scale much better than anything else since your effective physical health would approach infinite as dodge increases to 100 (Ignoring the fact that there are not enough dodge items). Multiplicative dodge makes dodge stacking scale equally with armour, while improving both armour and dodge at the same time increase your health quadratically. Still, the dodge mastery gives very little dodge, which makes rather weak if it wasn't for nimbleness, and I still agree with your conclusion that it's only really valuable for Jax and Udyr.

It's still important to remember not to stare blindly at the gold values and actually pick masteries which help you. First consider how much you need the bonus the mastery gives, and then consider how effective it is. As a last comment you can probably find the value of armour penetration by subtracting the damage and CDR from brutalizer. Might not be very accurate though. Comparing with runes can also be interesting.


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2nyce

Senior Member

05-01-2011

I disagree with a lot of your points here. Also just because you calculated a mastery to be worth more in gold than others, doesn't mean its good, vise versa with your low 'priced' masteries, doesn't mean those are bad. Interesting nonetheless. Another thing is you are way undervaluing the movespeed talent. 3 movespeed quints give you 4.5% movespeed, and those are over 6k IP total. Tell me that 3% is worthless now. You actually underestimate alot in the utility tree.

Another talent you underestimate is awareness. Imagine you are mid against a champ who can kill you easily once they reach level 6 (Malzahar and others), now imagine you can kill them also if you hit 6... I'll leave the rest up to you.

Basically the talents that give you stats/bonuses that you can't itemize for, are the most useful.


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Bimbley

Senior Member

05-01-2011

bump because this is a great thread


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CosMoe

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Senior Member

05-01-2011

Interesting.

Newly balanced masteries (or at least changing the most broken ones like Ardor etc.) would be nice in the near future but I've given up hope a year ago.


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Nerdrage

Senior Member

05-01-2011

Your stance on archaic knowledge is a little short sighted. 15% MR pen is great. Why? It makes your flat penetration scale even better. Since the 15% is applied before the flat penetration, you make out like a bandit as they start to get MR.

Also CDR is easy to get, but the problem is most CDR items diverge from the rest of your needs. Why gear for CDR when with masteries, runes, and blue you're capped. That leaves you with a much more flexible itemization to gear for better stats. Tenacity is super beast, though. I wish there were less wasteful defensive masteries.