Masteries Understood! Gold Pricing for most masteries...

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AndrewAkk

Junior Member

05-01-2011

Hi There, after a lot of research I cam to realise I had no real idea how 'worthwhile' each mastery was in any given tree. With this in mind I decided to order them based on how much 'money' they were worth. This was based on base items like Myki Pendant or a Dagger. Using their cost and stat base, I gave monetary values to every talent I could. Some of the time I was quite surprised at how bad or good a talent was as well. Sometimes it simply confirmed my opinion for that talent. Some of the talents scale late game. Frequently this scaling is pretty poor, so anything colored gold in the picture below is worth 2 or 3 times the value of any other color.

Here's my calculation:

(([Base Mastery Stat] / [Base Item Stat]) * [Base Item Gold]) / [Mastery Point Ammount]

For Masteries that scale, I get it's lowest ammount, and it's highest ammount (based over 20 minutes, or level 18, or with optimal hero/item build) and get the value in between

(([Highest Score] - [Lowest Score]) / 2) + [Lowest Score]

It's pretty simple mathematics, but I feel personally it's very effective.

Also I have a more indepth explanation of the talents here:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...UE&hl=en#gid=0

FAQ:

Did you take into account that the offensive 21pt mastery only increases base damage?

Basing my figure off of Corki, a descent damage AD carry, he does 48.2 at level one, which is buffed an extra 2.41by this skill, if a longsword is +10 damage, 415gold then at level one the skill is worth 106 gold, at level 18 his damage is 102 so the worth is 212 gold I grab the middle value, so it's worth 159 gold.

(I was wrong when I got my stats off of http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...ing_Bombardier, Leaguecraft is accurate)

Does the CDR from utility make it superior? (especially on champs that go 9/0/21).

I think it depends how much a character

a) values CDR (an Annie or LeBlanc shouldn't care too much)

b) needs CDR (there's a total of 14 end-game CDR recipes, making it easier for some champs to max CDR without it)

It's not the *only* superior build I think, but I would consider it the most reliable, valueable build in general.


You underestimate the value of Quickness!

You're right, I have. I based it off of Boots of Speed, and that value is going to stay, but Quickness is still a great talent.

I had severely undervalued it because Boots of Speed are so good (unlike AP or CDR Movement Speed becomes MORE valuable over time).

Compared to Boots of Speed, and base character movement, the worth is:

300 MS - 24g
310 MS - 25g
320 MS - 26g
330 MS - 26g

It still holds to fact that the faster you are, the better this skill is though.

Yeah what about Ashe? She's slow, and wants Quickness.

What about her? You could go all Utility for Intelligence, however Offensive was *made* for AD carries, she benefits from the Crit, the Attack Damage, and the +5% AD base damage. Havoc is worth, by level 18, 203.35. Comparing it even with the greater recipe of Boots of Swiftness, Quickness only gives her 63.38g worth of extra speed. There's also some discussion of it double-dipping and buffing twice AD spells like Volley, making it so much better than quickness.

You underestimate Awareness!

No I definitely don't! It's decent for utility junglers, and it's signifigantly better than Expanded Mind for *anybody*. However, the difference is never more than half a level, and there's about 17% of level 5 left for the other champion when you hit level 6, that isn't a big window of opportunity for your ult, but it can be enough to afford times for ganks or a surprise ult.

The extra 17% at level 6 isn't that noteworthy, you wouldn't even lose much money sitting on tower until you're level 6. If your opponent isn't careful around an ult-centric character, then you're better than them anyway.

It is however, signifigantly better than Expanded Mind, and the Utility tree has awesome masteries afterwards (frankly blow it out of the water).

Basically, it's good if the enemy is bad, but bad if the enemy is good.


Archaic Knowledge is much better than you think!

That really depends... You see, it doesn't work well with ANY other form of magic penetration. So, if you had sorcerors shoes, because penetration % is calculated last, the target as 20 less magic reduction to remove a % from. If you had an abyssal scepter, that's 40 less magic, meaning a typical banshee's veil only gets 15% of 10 magic penetration removed (the same as 1.5 magic penetration). It also stacks horribly with other magic penetration %, so if you had a void staff, it becomes 49% reduction, which would be great IF it occured before flat penetration.

This actually makes spending 355 extra gold on an abyssal staff preferable over a void staff due the exact same penetration (and you get a free +57 magic resist), since in the meta game most champions only get one magic defense item and an ap caster shouldn't typically spend his CD on tanks, and it scales well with Sorceror Shoes.

However, if you look at it I placed its worth at 375, the highest in that list. It just isn't useful at 0 magic resist and doesn't scale well end-game against anything but heavily stacked magic resistance (tanks). That doesn't make it *useless*, it just means it has some drawbacks which make it 'not the best mastery in the game'.

Remember 375 GOLD!!!

Tenacity isn't the best ever.

It is, you have to completely finish a tree to get it, which means I don't advise many people getting it, but it scales ALL GAME. That means if that Tryndamere critted you for 2000 damage, you resist 80 damage, in comparison a typical Cloth Armor *might* resist more as much as 14.4%, but if the tryndamere has ANY armor penetration you suddenly are being hit for much less. Consider also that Veigar popping his ult on you, that makes 4% less damage on that ult AS WELL which is magic. It also removes 4% for TRUE DAMAGE which suffers no reduction (think Corki). So 4% resistance to all damage get better the more the carries stack DPS. Havoc on the other hand scales only with level on AD, and doesn't scale well with spells on AP (isn't included in bonus AP pool). Tenacity basically is scaling Armor and Magic Resistance all game.

Expanded Mind is glitched and only works on base mana

Believe it or not, Riot has stated it's working as intended before...

Some Masteries are worth more because they're hard to obtain

If it has a gold price it isn't hard to obtain. Also some things aren't WORTH trying to obtain. Like %10 time spent left dead. Although that's decent as the game progresses, by the time it makes itself worthwhile (unless you die A LOT) the game is probably over, as lvl 18 champs absolutely stomp towers when one team is (4v5 even). Movement Speed, Gold, Dodge (lol), are on lots of items, and if you look at the meta game, there's a lot of Hearts of Gold and Speed Boots... and Dodge is just bad for anyone without inherint Dodge skills, it just isn't that great. A Sword of the Divine utterly counters it, it scales horribly, and Attack Speed utterly nullifies its limited effectiveness against most AD heroes...

Some of your skills have a high gold value, but aren't that good (like Crit)!

This is true, however I treat every skill as if it was the one you specifically want. For instance, a lot of Ryze players like Perserverance because they get Strength of SPirit and it buffs that, so I treat that skill as if you had a Warmog's and Mass Mana Ryze build. It STILL sucks. For Crit I pretend you're a Tryndamere who has inbuilt critical in his spells. Dodge, I treated as if you were a tank (or Jax) and loved your dodge. For Nimbleness I assumed you were being hit by AD consistently and ALWAYs had 10% movement speed. You still need to be sensible and ask yourself if you need that stat.

Another point of contention was Archaic Knowledge, which is the ONLY stat I based off an end game recipe, because:

a) It only gets +10 bonus AP

b) It has no extra passives or stats

Cooldown was a bit hard to get, so I had to use a recipe for it as well, using Kindle Gem. With Kindle Gem it also has no extra passives, and adds +20 health (from Ruby). From these itesm I assumed the bonus due to recipe cost would be reasonably small, and since they where hard to obtain stats, they where worth the extra stat-per-gold in a mastery tree.

You base your gold values off the wrong item!

Okay, to start off with, I based my item values off of the cheapest values item in the game. This was because a Faerie Charm is exactly the same as three points in Meditation, this made me realize most of these abilities could be calculated as base items. Most of these abilities have very little gain, so I realized, unless something was really special and scaled really well to level 18, it needed to be competitive at low levels where the majority of the games are decided. Therefore I treated each item as if its worth was decided around level 10, so scaling items where given a gold value between in the middle (because comparitviely they make laning hard). For over-time abilities I decided their worth 20 minutes into the game. Plentiful Bounty can make around 75 gold by 20 minutes. This is simply because beyond Tenacity nothing scales really well into the end game. Some do quite well (like Havoc which scales decently).

I wont base my data on more expensie items, because that usually means the stat is

a) Easy to get so less valueable (a needlessly large Rod is AP, which is on EVERY item so it's less valuable)
b) You end up getting tonnes of it end game, making a stat less and less gold worth as the game goes on (for instance, AP is worth 23 gold early game, is worth 18 gold end game-probably less). CD is worth 38gold early game only 28gold end game.

By using a low value item I'm trying to obtain an accurate depiction of its worth in comparison to every other stat, and in comparison to its rarity. When I price Quickness low, that's in relation to Boots of Speed, which is in relation to an Amplifying tome, which is in relation to a Null Magic Mantle.


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Annoying Pumpkin

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Senior Member

05-01-2011

real good
now buff ez plz


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AndrewAkk

Junior Member

05-01-2011

I would love to explain some of the more notable masteries:


OFFENSIVE:
There isn't a single bad talent in the offense tree, however the later talents are very Crit/AD Based

DEFENSIVE:
Strength of Spirit is godly, if you're going into the defensive tree at all, get this
Don't spend in dodge unless you're Jax or Udyr(most tanks shouldn't grab this)
Nimbleness looks good, but it's awful if you have mana and no Dodge Spell Mechanic
Defensive Mastery is NOT as good as Offensive Mastery for jungling
Ardor is totally useless - my "Awesome" value was based on an AP and AS warwick (theorizing he might like to jungle in the defensive tree)

UTILITY:
Enjoy wasting 8 talent points at the start (Awareness is descent, but still comparitively a waste)
Greed is actually good, everything in the third tier is great...
Quickness is only good if you're already a really fast champion


Also Note:

Archaic Knowledge looks absolutely awesome on paper, but it doesn't stack very well with other magic penetration %, ending up at about 49% when used with Void Staff (the recipes I had to base its cost off of). Also magic penetration % isn't nearly as good as flat.

Offensive Mastery is so much better than Defensive Mastery, I didn't expect this, but not only will you kill monsters much quicker, level faster but you also have the better value stat.

Evasion is a scary bad talent, made only slightly decent because it has Nimbleness under it. Not only that, but dodge is dodgy and stacks multiplicatively. Also, Nimbleness is only worth 242 IF you dodged someone, which means you need to spend a lot of runes and points into dodge. It is, however, preferable for the following Champions:

a) Jax, who is built around Dodge
b) Udyr, who also has a Dodge mechanic
c) Shen, since he recieves no bonus from Strength of the Spirit
d) Sivir also has pretty decent dodge, having the greatest ability to dodge out of all characters
e) Nidalee, who has cougar form with dodge

If you're a mana tank, then try to get anything other than dodge, I see too many excellent tank builds spec into dodge, but it's easily outshone by a simple Ninja Tabi and definitely by Strength of the Spirit, even without a big mana pool.

Not only is Ardor a confusing DPS talent in the defense tree, it also scales very badly, I think I was far too generous with 32 because it does nothing at all unless you have are trying to max AS AND AP, and starts with no benefits early game.

Not a surprise but the first two levels of Utility are incredibly bad. Go Good Hands and Awareness regardless of character.

-----------------

With Quickness I'm retracting my statement it's worthless, because the item I based it off of (Boots of Speed) provide a signifigant speed advantage. It provides 50 MS for 350 gold, in comparison you spend 650gold for a measly 40 extra when buying boots of swiftness. Movement Speed scales slower the more you have of it. Also Quickness is absolutely EXCELLENT on the Heroes:

Miss Fortune - Worth 30 gold on full passive
Singed - Worth 29 gold on Ultimate
Sona - Worth 25 gold on Spell

Because these heroes have abilites which flatly scale with MS. Kennen skill Lightning Rush also adds flat MS but this is done after bonuses. Other characters and items beyond boots are also MS% so don't affect Quickness.

-----------------

The best talent by far is Tenacity, trumping everything by miles, since it's worth more and more as the game progresses and doesn't require specific champions or items to be potent. (It beats an unpriceable mastery like Presence of the Master simply because summoner spells with long cooldowns are much better choices than others when picking it)


Spatial Accuracy is pretty awful, measly 5 second CD and half a second quicker? Lucky it's competing against Good Hands and Perserverance...
Plentiful Bounty makes itself a wise investment clocking in at 75gold after twenty minutes of continues use
Oh yeah, and for some interest: Ignite is worth a whopping 218 gold when it's off CD and you spend in Burning Embers


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iBi Smoketreez

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Senior Member

05-01-2011

Presence of the Master not having value is fairly saddening, as it's the best mastery available.

+1 anyways.


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ManaBurnSEAL

Master Recruiter

05-01-2011

why is ardor in the defense tree again?


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AndrewAkk

Junior Member

05-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hezzak View Post
Presence of the Master not having value is fairly saddening, as it's the best mastery available.

+1 anyways.
Yeah sorry, there's no basic item I can base it off of! It's pretty awesome though, typical removing at least 27 seconds from a summoner spell


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Zero47

Senior Member

05-01-2011

Interesting post though gold values don't always accurately show the real value.

CDR for example is extremely undervalued. It's balanced though because it's not easy to itemize. This alone makes the utility tree extremely strong. Ever since the nerf to defensive tree I hardly ever take anything besides x/x/21.

Did you take into account that the offensive 21pt mastery only increases base damage (no increase on the scaling of skills, no increase on bonus AD).


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shawabawa

Senior Member

05-01-2011

I would like to point to perseverences gold value.

4.

Please stop skilling this, good hands (while terrible) is so much better.

Expanded mind is terrible, it says 5% increased mana but what it doesn't say is that it only effects base mana, but that doesn't really matter because the +xp is awesome.


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AndrewAkk

Junior Member

05-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero47 View Post
Interesting post though gold values don't always accurately show the real value.

CDR for example is extremely undervalued. It's balanced though because it's not easy to itemize. This alone makes the utility tree extremely strong. Ever since the nerf to defensive tree I hardly ever take anything besides x/x/21.

Did you take into account that the offensive 21pt mastery only increases base damage (no increase on the scaling of skills, no increase on bonus AD).
I update my OP with a FAQ as well:

Basing my figure off of Corki, a descent damage AD carry, he does 48.2 at level one, which is buffed an extra 2.41by this skill, if a longsword is +10 damage, 415gold then at level one the skill is worth 100gold, at level 18 his damage is 99.2 so the worth is 206 gold I grab the middle value, so it's worth 153gold, I must have used a character with slighter higher damage for the stat.
(although i could be wrong I got my stats off of http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wik...ing_Bombardier but League Craft shows his damage to be higher...)

Whilst CDR is a good stat it isn't impossible to get, with seals, 14 end-item recipes and a blue golem buff to augment it, not to mention it caps at %40 I used a Kindle Gem for my gold cost.


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Zero47

Senior Member

05-01-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewAkk View Post
Whilst CDR is a good stat it isn't impossible to get, with seals, 14 end-item recipes and a blue golem buff to augment it, not to mention it caps at %40 I used a Kindle Gem for my gold cost.
Seeing as you did the number crunching would you agree that the CDR from utility is so much that it makes utility superior? (especially on champs that go 9/0/21). Lucidity boots + glyphs + masteries puts champions near the cap, which is an amazing amount of utility with a very small price to pay. For a champion like Nasus that gets his damage from a skill max CDR flat out reduces Q's cooldown to 1.8s from 3, which is huge. Not to mention added chasing from Wither CDR and reducing ult CDR.