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I need help with Noc build.

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Master Dim Sum

Senior Member

04-27-2011

So I've been playing Noc probably since he was on free week, and I'm still trying to figure out a good build for him.

Right now I've tried these two builds:

1) Glass Cannon -
B. Greaves
Black Cleaver/B. Thirster/Infinity Edge (depending on gold)
Brutalizer->Yomuus
Maybe even a Phantom Dancer for MS/AS/CS.


Pros: I feel like I can do major damage, especially if I start owning early game. Then it's the case of "Oh my God, a fed Nocturne, everyone run".
Cons: If I don't own early game, and they team up. I'm useless, and ridiculously squishy, because chances are the only people I can kill is the carry, who is usually in the back of the team, and if I Ult in..it's dead Nocturne.



Tank-ish:
B. Greaves/Boots of Mobility (I do like how it helps him get everywhere fast)/M. treads
Brutalizer->Yomuus
FON - Every team always has some mage who does crazy AP damage
Thornmail - I feel it works well against a carry I'm gonna try and kill who chooses to stand and trade with me. Plus more durability.
Black Cleaver - Added AD/AP

Pros: Definitely gives me more durability than the above. So I'm more useful during team fights. Plus I could possibly even 1 v1 characters who aren't so squishy.
Cons: Damage output is significantly less than glass cannon, so yeah I may not die, but I may not get that kill either.


Any ideas?

I know people recommend Banshee's Veil, but I figured if you use your spell shield right, kind of don't need it right? Not to mention forces of Nature way cheaper, may not block a spell, but way more MR and health regen is great especially when running away from a kill with low-ish health.


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Master Dim Sum

Senior Member

04-27-2011

oh btw my runes are all in Armor Pen, Dodge, and Cooldown Reduction. Perhaps I should switch out the Dodge and CDR with Armor and MR runes?


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Limonn

Senior Member

04-27-2011

jungle noc is a must

wriggles
boots, either swiftness or merc, i feel beserkers isn't needed since you get AS bonus from his W
yomumus ghostblade
banshees is a MUST have, whats better than running into a battle with 2 spell shields? nothing
the next item is situational, either offense or defense, infinity edge is nice for owning squishys, ill get hexdrinker sometimes for MR + damage and a nice passive. or just Guardian angels


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Neokenfu

Senior Member

04-27-2011

Quote:
671aznpozer:
So I've been playing Noc probably since he was on free week, and I'm still trying to figure out a good build for him.

Right now I've tried these two builds:

1) Glass Cannon -
B. Greaves
Black Cleaver/B. Thirster/Infinity Edge (depending on gold)
Brutalizer->Yomuus
Maybe even a Phantom Dancer for MS/AS/CS.


Pros: I feel like I can do major damage, especially if I start owning early game. Then it's the case of "Oh my God, a fed Nocturne, everyone run".
Cons: If I don't own early game, and they team up. I'm useless, and ridiculously squishy, because chances are the only people I can kill is the carry, who is usually in the back of the team, and if I Ult in..it's dead Nocturne.


This is a really terrible build that I can only imagine may work against people who are really bad at the game. You need to have some survive in your build and part of that is CC reduction. Not having merc treads on someone so squishy is terrible.

Quote:
Tank-ish:
B. Greaves/Boots of Mobility (I do like how it helps him get everywhere fast)/M. treads
Brutalizer->Yomuus
FON - Every team always has some mage who does crazy AP damage
Thornmail - I feel it works well against a carry I'm gonna try and kill who chooses to stand and trade with me. Plus more durability.
Black Cleaver - Added AD/AP

Pros: Definitely gives me more durability than the above. So I'm more useful during team fights. Plus I could possibly even 1 v1 characters who aren't so squishy.
Cons: Damage output is significantly less than glass cannon, so yeah I may not die, but I may not get that kill either.


FON & Thornmail are bad because they lack stats you need and have stats you shouldn't ever get. FON is a regen health item on a champ that has very little health. Thornmail is an armor item which you should never get unless you are against a VERY HEAVY AD team. Naturally as you level up you'll get armor but MR scales much slower. Get a BV and then wonder why the h*ll you ever wasted time with FON/Thornmail.

Nocturne is a damage powerhouse and if you lack survive you may want to get lifesteal. If you focus on lifesteal/damage good things will happen. A better build is:

Wriggles lantern/Merc Treads(that's damage, map awareness, AR, MR, on minion hit 500 damage proc, lifesteal, and CC reduction in 2 items) is your core. It's hard to imagine this ever really changing on him.

Next most of the time: Brutalizer, Avarice, upgr to Ghostblade. If they are magic heavy its imperative to get a negatron cloak here or a chainmail if they are AD heavy. From there it's usually IE but could be Last Whisperer depending on squishy vs. tanky factor of the opponents. I may also change my negatron into BV before building any more offense if there's a Teemo/Karth I'm playing against.

After whichever way you go I'd recommend either a Starks or Bloodthirster depending on if another teammate has starks.

Final build usually looks like: Wriggle's, Ghostblade, Merc treads, Banshee veil, IE, and Starks. I usually sell the wriggles for a Bloodthirster if the game lasts this long.

Quote:
Any ideas?


Build to counter your opponents. Having a core of a couple items is OK but you need to consider hard how to best counter their team when selecting the items after that. Also, you make no mention of runes or masteries.

Runes I use: ArP Quints, ArP marks, flat armor seals, and flat CDR glyphs.

Masteries I use: 21/0/9 Go with AS over CDR in Offense and I go with ghost/regen, XP, and greed in util.

I hope that you are jungling with him and that this is helpful!


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DSpyder

Senior Member

04-27-2011

Merc Treads
Cleaver
Banshee's Veil (Against Heavy AD Sunfire or GA)
Starks (or thirster)
Ghostblade (Against Heavy AR stackers Last Whisper)
IE


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Master Dim Sum

Senior Member

04-27-2011

Looks like I should go Banshee's Veil after all. Okay I'll give that a shot. I'm not a big fan of building the IE because I feel it takes awfully long to afford it. The Blood Thirster I do like.

As for jungling...I'm iffy. So far I can jungle well with him using my route, but I feel like the past few times I've jungled..I've really screwed over the team regarding who's getting the 2 v 1 lane.


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Neokenfu

Senior Member

04-27-2011

Quote:
Looks like I should go Banshee's Veil after all. Okay I'll give that a shot. I'm not a big fan of building the IE because I feel it takes awfully long to afford it. The Blood Thirster I do like.


I'm not a huge fan of how long it takes either and how ****ty the parts are along the way. That said, damage wise there is nothing that r*pes squishies like ghostblades active with a IE behind it. So in general I agree about it's time to build issues but the combo of the two more than makes up for it.

Quote:
As for jungling...I'm iffy. So far I can jungle well with him using my route, but I feel like the past few times I've jungled..I've really screwed over the team regarding who's getting the 2 v 1 lane.


I've been thinking about the solo top 1 v 2 a lot lately. I can rattle off a list of champs whose kits work great 1 v 2 but really it takes more than a kit. The person HAS to WANT to be the 1 v 2. When I'm Xin, and I see a jungler, I call dibs as quickly as possible. I do that because I have a ton of experience 1 v 2. The person who should occupy that slot needs to be experienced and confident. Their champs kit also needs to have some element of pushing involved in it so the tower doesn't get overrun before you can gank.


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1ronLung

Recruiter

04-27-2011

IMO on noct you should build IE, Ghostblade, then tanky.
i normally go something like this
http://tinylc.com/YI


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Master Dim Sum

Senior Member

04-28-2011

Quote:
Neokenfu:
Get a BV and then wonder why the h*ll you ever wasted time with FON/Thornmail.



-Started going for BV with Nocturne, and it has made a huge difference in my gameplay. I guess it is a good item after all lol. And yeah who'd thought having basically two spell shields would make that much off a difference. makes it so much easier to take out their squishies during team fights, when you can ulti in, use spell shield to stop one stun/slow, then the other...then its dead carry, and ur team takes care of the rest while you either assist or run away.

Anyway so far I've been doing this build against what I would say is a balanced team or heavy AP (I feel like it's very rare you run into an heavy AD team) team.


-Stating off with Regen Pendant and 1 Mana potion
-Regen Pen -> Phil Stone
- M. Treads
-Brutalizer
-BV
-Brutalizer->Yomuus
-Infinity Edge
-Stark's Fervor or Black Cleaver (If someone else already has Starks on team)
-Sell Phil Stone -> BF Sword -> Blood Thirster


Right now still not jungling with Noc, I feel like teams I'm playing on (mainly solo) just aren't too comfortable with a jungler. Plus by the time I hit lvl 6, all I really have is Wriggles and maybe some B. Speed so ganks aren't nearly as successful as I'd like, and my person who went 1 v 2 may have already lost the turret by then.

Anyway given my build above, seem pretty good? my only worry is it has nice AD, AS, Lifesteal AND MR. But there's no real armor in it. I did have that entire build and went 1 v 1 (R, E, Q, and everything) against a glass cannon Yi, and he annihilated me..

Maybe I should change my fifth item from BC/Starks->Sunfire Cape for health/armor/DPS and then yeah leave sixth item as BT/BC/Starks?


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SynergyDreamer

Senior Member

04-29-2011

Out of all of the boots, Ionians should be highly considered. Paired with Youmuu's with some Masteries and Glyphs your CDR will be about 37% or something. With CDR, keeping your spells in check means more sustained damage.
Youmuu's is an obvious choice, at least the Brutalizer first.
Frozen Mallet is a great option, paired with red buff they're virtually dead even if they flash-ghost. And it would also take another spell or two to kill.
Banshee's Veil, set with the Shroud of Darkness and Cleanse, maybe even Quicksilver Sash as well, makes it highly unlikely you would ever be disabled.
The other two slots to fill are more so situational. Black Cleaver, Stark's Fervor, Infinity Edge, Guardian Angel, Quicksilver Sash, Sword of the Occult, Last Whisper, Atma's Impaler, and Randuin's are good choices.


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