Which Shaco to build!? >.<

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Captain Bumbler

Senior Member

04-26-2011

So I got Shaco a couple days ago and I can't decide whether to go with an AP build or an Attack speed/damage build. Theres ups and downs to both builds so I was hoping someone could help me decide?

On one side AP Shaco is probably one of the best pushers in the game. I was using him to push a top Lane alone while my friend was jungling as Udyr and I did fine because of Jack in the Box.

But later, AP Shaco seems to get really week because he just dosn't have enough damage for a team fight. An attack speed/damage Shaco would do a lot better in a fight but he isn't nearly as effective Laning.

Help?


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PunchGroin

Senior Member

04-26-2011

Ap just doesn't synergize well with jungling. It's more a pubstomper/troll build than an actually good one. He can mess with a few people really well, and its fun to obliterate people with JITB, but not really worth it compared to a more classic AD assassin route. (Give a LB and enough AP to anyone and they will be decent, Im not saying it's worthless, just inferior)

You will find that AD builds split push as good or better than AP ones do. (The clone can do some serious damage to towers) With a wrigs and enough AS, you will melt waves faster than you likely would as AP.

The only thing AP really excels at compared to AD is irritating people, which can be fun, but isn't really a great selling point.


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Xeatoa

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Senior Member

04-26-2011

ad


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Captain Bumbler

Senior Member

04-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by PunchGroin View Post
Ap just doesn't synergize well with jungling. It's more a pubstomper/troll build than an actually good one. He can mess with a few people really well, and its fun to obliterate people with JITB, but not really worth it compared to a more classic AD assassin route. (Give a LB and enough AP to anyone and they will be decent, Im not saying it's worthless, just inferior)

You will find that AD builds split push as good or better than AP ones do. (The clone can do some serious damage to towers) With a wrigs and enough AS, you will melt waves faster than you likely would as AP.

The only thing AP really excels at compared to AD is irritating people, which can be fun, but isn't really a great selling point.
Well for jungling I definitely think AD is better, but what about for laning? Jack in the Box can do some serious pushing, almost on the level of Heimerdinger's turrets. Maybe I could do an AP/AD Hybrid? Or should I just go for AD?


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AgentGary

Member

04-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteandsexi View Post
Well for jungling I definitely think AD is better, but what about for laning? Jack in the Box can do some serious pushing, almost on the level of Heimerdinger's turrets. Maybe I could do an AP/AD Hybrid? Or should I just go for AD?
A laning Shaco is as much as a joke as an AP Shaco. If you're not going to jungle, don't use Shaco. Sounds harsh, but that's the truth.

What is Shaco's sole purpose? To put devastating pressure early game but ganking and helping his teammates farm better. Shaco is a great granker and should be played as such. His mere presence can be enough to hinder his enemies' farming abilities as well as exp gain.

I have so many reason to support an AD/AS jungling Shaco, but it is not worth my time if you are low ELO (or if your win/loss ratio is below 50/50 or around there, in which case, lane Shaco or AP Shaco is somewhat viable but is very much frowned upon and you will be considered a troll for using them that way).

If you cannot play Shaco as AS/AD and a jungler, then Shaco's role as a great ganker/jungler is not played correctly. Any other alternatives to an AS/AD jungling Shaco will mean you will be hurting your team in the long run because that is primary reason why Shaco is viable as a champion. Why, you may ask? Shaco is less and less effective in dealing sustained DPS damage because he is so squishy. When you pop into the team fight, they will melt both you and your clone (unless they are bad, which is why I asked if you're low-mid ELO).

If you have a bad early game with Shaco, you've basically turned the game into a 4v5. Shaco won't do well in team fights unless you fulfilled your role as a jungler by ganking and denying them exp and farm. Why play Shaco if you are not going to jungle? There are far better DPSers (sustained as well) that can better contribute to the team's success.

In short, any alternative go an AD/AS jungling Shaco is a detriment to your team's success if you are mid-high ELO. Also, you must be expected to do well early game in order to fulfill Shaco's role as an exceptional ganker and jungler. A farmed Shaco is not as useful as a Shaco that denies enemies' exp/farm in the early game, so you need to put pressure on the enemy team very early in the game, and it can be done in as early as 3 minutes into the game when you've acquired your Red.


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Captain Bumbler

Senior Member

04-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentGary View Post
A laning Shaco is as much as a joke as an AP Shaco. If you're not going to jungle, don't use Shaco. Sounds harsh, but that's the truth.

What is Shaco's sole purpose? To put devastating pressure early game but ganking and helping his teammates farm better. Shaco is a great granker and should be played as such. His mere presence can be enough to hinder his enemies' farming abilities as well as exp gain.

I have so many reason to support an AD/AS jungle Shaco, but it is not worth my time if you are low ELO (or if your win/loss ratio is below 50/50 or around there, in which case, lane Shaco or AP Shaco is somewhat viable but is very much frowned upon and you will be considered a troll for using them that way).

If you cannot play Shaco as AS/AD and jungle, then Shaco's role as a great ganker/jungler is not played correctly. Any other alternatives to an AS/AD jungle Shaco will mean you will be hurting your team in the long run because that is primary reason why Shaco is viable as a champion. Why, you may ask? Shaco is less and less effective in dealing sustained DPS damage because he is so squishy. When you pop into the team fight, they will melt both you and your clone (unless they are bad, which is why I asked if you're low-mid ELO).

If you have a bad early game with Shaco, you've basically turned the game into a 4v5. Shaco won't do well in team fights unless you fulfilled your role as a jungler by ganking and denying them exp and farm. Why play Shaco if you are not going to jungle? There are far better DPSers (sustained as well) that can better contribute to the team's success.
Not true at all it's true Shaco is a great jungler but I lane with him fine. I can 2v1 easily and the last game I played as a laning Shaco I finished with a score of 21/1/4. He's a great harrasser and pusher and can lane just as well as he jungles.


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AgentGary

Member

04-26-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteandsexi View Post
Not true at all it's true Shaco is a great jungler but I lane with him fine. I can 2v1 easily and the last game I played as a laning Shaco I finished with a score of 21/1/4. He's a great harrasser and pusher and can lane just as well as he jungles.
I guarantee you won't be able to pull that off mid-high ELO (so I am going to assume your win/loss ratio is sub-par, which is fine, because I am here to provide advice to a more capable Shaco).

I don't see why you are asking for an alternative build if you can 2v1 as easily as you've said, with a ridiculous score of 21/1/4. A great Shaco is being able to deny enemies' farm/exp and have the potential of engaging in devastating ganks early game. That being said, a Shaco player going 5/1/1 may be scarier than a Shaco player going all out carrying with 21/1/4.

Regardless, no great Shaco player can expect a score of 21/1/4 or similar scores--just because you were fed and snowballed in one particular game doesn't make a laning Shaco viable at all.

That is not to say Shaco is a fail at laning. He is a great back-doorer. What makes any laning Shaco player bad is that any jungler will benefit your team immensely if someone can 1v2, because that means more exp for both you and the 1v2 teammate. This also means Shaco can fulfill the role of an excellent early ganker.

Against any decent enemies, Shaco will be starved of gold and denied. He is too squishy and has no farming capabilities (unless you want to spam your W, in which case you will need to max it early, and therefore you won't be able to go AD/AS Shaco). He cannot do much to harass, because spamming your E is just not viable. In order to last-hit, he must put his squishy self in front of the line, which is a risk in 1v1, let alone a 2v1.

A champion that is a good laner doesn't mean he won't benefit more from jungling for the team's success.

Certainly your enemies were incompetent if they could not out-harass a 1v2 laning Shaco.


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9Teen7Teen

Junior Member

04-26-2011

ive mained shaco since level 15 and i'm now a little over 700 wins with atleast 50% of them from shaco. i enjoyed facerolling with him during his "OP days" and even played with him after the epic nerf following.

i mainly play 3's and i can say shacos laning game is top notch. he can poof from bottom lane to top by the time your opposing team can type "mia" with that being the case AD shaco out classes AP shaco. because with the ability backstab, slow from shiv and your ult + summoner spells A decent AD shaco can tear any opponent to shreds who over extends even a little during the laning phase.

on the flip side ap shaco can also be viable but it takes too much time to set up jitb's. which means that if a teamfight is happening in a place where u havent set up a gank then you will be little help to your team with the one jitb that you'd have time to place and your mediocore AD/AS.

now just because shaco is a good laner doesn't mean that he isn't a good jungler. infact hes an amazing jungler but i wouldn't recommend jungling with him untill about level 5 or 6 once you've had enough gold to build madreds or a lanturn but once you do you should have permanant control of dragon and liz buff throughout the whole game.

hes alright AP but he really shines when it comes to AD


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Fluffy1

Senior Member

04-26-2011

AP shaco is one of my main, since you just bought shaco im gonna have to recommend you play and learn AD first. its easier to learn on an allready hard champ and teaches you the trail and errors of shaco which you really need to play AP well.

as for AP rundown though people need to learn hes NOT jitb focused and not a melee till he has lichbane. see soo many bad players sit around with ap builds and stack boxes just to have them all trigure without fear and get accidently destroyed with AOE. all that time spend setting up a nest is time you should be tossing shivs at everyones backs or farming.

but yes learn the AD build first, you wont lane very will with an AD build unless you bring alot of mana regen runes but he jungles pretty well.


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Cuix

Senior Member

04-26-2011

AD Shaco is superior. Shaco doesn't belong in lane, but yeah, he -can- do it and succeed. AP Shaco is silly fun and a powerful late game nuke-and-run, but AD Shaco has much greater potential.

AD can get that tower down much more quickly and efficiently than AP. Also, using jitbs to farm minions is a dumb thing to do and you should stop right now. Turrets work because of how much damage they do to champions and how well Heimer can keep them going. Boxes don't last as long, are easily taken down, and just result in the enemy getting gold. Boxes are for trolling, escaping, and setting up ganks.


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