Evidence to proof Low ELO Hell probably exists, and the injustice.

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Goth Skunk

Senior Member

05-10-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolifiend View Post
After about say 100 games, deviation is pretty much knocked out of the elo system. If you have played a large quantity of games, its almost certain that the common factor (ie you), is largely responsible for the elo you are at. The closer your win/loss is to 50% after a decent portion of games (ie 50+), the more likelihood that you are indeed at your true elo.

The reason this is true is that once you account for the vast boost you have for like the first 20 games, you can pretty much look at your record use the formula 1200 + (Wins - Losses)*12, and get VERY close to your elo, give or take some deviation for dodges, games played above and below your level etc.
The emphasized part is true for 1v1 games like chess, but for 5v5 games like League of Legends, you could not be farther from the truth.

The 'common variable = you' theory can only truly be attached in 1 v 1 situations. Whereas in 5 v 5 solo queue, you are constantly being matched up with 9 other outside variables; 4 on your team, and 5 on the other. And they are very rarely the same people over and over again.

You depend on your 4 teammates just as much as they depend on you, and all it takes is one guy on your team to disconnect, rage, or just have a generally poor game, and you are suddenly at a significant disadvantage that is beyond your control.

How is it the fault of 4 other team members if the 5th one is not having an A game? From a logical perspective, it isn't. But unfortunately, that's exactly the system that Riot is using. 5 v 5 games are treated as 1 v 1 matches, where the 1 is a team and not an individual player. When your team is constantly changing players, it cannot be used as a reliable statistic to determine an individual players rank.


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Kashus

Senior Member

05-10-2011

The highest elo I hit was 1496, I am currently hovering in the 1100's. I used one champion to climb me to 1496 and that was Blitz. He could single handedly change a game with one grab. Once I got to 1496, I started playing other champs. Nasus was one of them, Udyr as well.

My problem is that I have moments of brilliance followed up with moments of sheer stupidity. Inconsistency is why I am in the 1100 elo bracket.

Sometimes I get lazy too, in a game. I won't be diligently last hitting all the minions, stuff like that.


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FlySpy

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Junior Member

05-17-2011

I've been lingering around that magical 1200 for a while now. Here are my observations as to what you can do to improve your chances, because sometimes skills are just not enough.
1. Learn to play a tank or a support
Reason: Most likely you will have plenty of people playing carries and at this elo, a good tank or support is priceless. You will need to endure not seeing any direct results of your actions but you will know when you're doing a good job. In my opinion, Zilean with a few cdr runes makes a whole lot of difference even when you're on a bad team. Sidenote: Learn to play all the champions that are constantly banned (amumu, rammus and shen) just in case an opportunity presents itself
2. Buy wards
Reason: Quite obvious I hope but nobody ever gets them, with 2 wards on the map you'll start seeing a difference and usually the rest of the team begins warding as well.
3. Think about your build, don't just copy it from some site
Reason: Builds that are posted on sites like mobafire will rarely make a perfect fit for each game and they are usually tested in a different bracket than yours (A build that works in high elo may fail in low elo)
4. Protect good players
Reason: When you finally get that person that just rolls over the other team, they need to stay alive or else team fights will not look too pretty
5. Don't wander around the jungle alone
Reason: You lose your tactical advantage when somebody spots you and lures you into a trap. If you need that blue or red, just ask someone on the team to come with you. This problem is also alleviated by warding
6. Distinguish between the laning phase and team fights
Reason: When the laning phase is over and your team is still in their respective lanes it opens a window of opportunity for the other team to roll through the middle and take that first turret
7. /ignore
Reason: One person on your team can get you out of focus. If you simply ignore them then you won't be affected by it. Sidenote: If you want to troll, then troll your enemy not your allies

There were a few more things but I can't think of them right now. I hope this helps


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Enjuine

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Senior Member

05-19-2011

The reason people say that there is no elo hell is because there is no line of demarcation where feeders, leavers, disconnects, and trolls stop. Meaning, you can't escape it. You could says that there is no elo hell and that elo hell is all of ranked play. Same thing really.

Feeders? Skill differences still happen the higher you get. Leavers? Less common but rare things do happen. DC? Elo has nothing to do with this unless the person has a consistent problem. Trolls? Apparently it gets funnier to troll the higher you get.

You can carry yourself up though, and the best advice I can give you is to redefine your definition of carrying. The best way to carry is to destroy towers, kill dragon, and ward the map. Even idiots can do well if they have a level/gold advantage from all that global gold. Wards can help them not get ganked and feed so hard. On a related note, jungling makes doing all these things easiest, so do consider getting good at a jungler. Gank lane then push tower over, control dragon, warding is easier when you are constantly moving around the map.


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dhkimboa

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Senior Member

05-19-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyWilco View Post
I do understand what your saying, but the only reason i posted this thread is because I have had about 5+ high elo players say that I am a good player.

No im not saying I am pro and deserve to be in 1800+ Elo. Hell I doubt i should even be above 1500. But when i beat players that our 500 Elo higher than me in solomid matches on much more than one occasion as well as be complimented on how well I do in normal games, i think i should be at least positive elo. This is why I think that there is a bit of injustice, not because some people should definitely be at high elo, instead, just a bit above average instead of negative elo.
making threads about this won't get you higher

5+ high elo players telling you are good won't get you higher either

I've taken accounts, 3 specifically talking, 900, 1000, and 1100

I took 900 account to 1423 in 4 days losing 4 to 5 games in that elo. I carried them all.
If you're that good you're gonna get out from that elo eventually and not making threads about you deserve to be higher.

There are 2 teams. Not only your side will have baddies.


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The Golijov

Junior Member

05-21-2011

There should really be an additional requirement other than just being level 30 to queue for ranked games. It's not "unfair" to restrict them to people who want to actually try and compete. If you don't care, you have normal queues. Its not a different game.


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I am the catman

Senior Member

05-21-2011

All the people who say "elo hell does not exist, if you're there you should be there, ect" are ****ing stupid. They all got to their elo without running into the people that i always have in my games. They got lucky. Thats all ranked is. LUCK


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Best player EU

Member

05-22-2011

Ok so I now ranked duo que with an 1850 elo guy who can carry me. Everything looked really positive..... until my client absolutely screwed up. I kept getting disconnected from chat every minute or so and if I tryed to start a game i would get the "session closed" error. After reinstalling over 5 times i am now encountering a different error which means when i click the play button I cannot even reach the log on screen.

Maybe Riot realized how fast my elo was increasing and have shut down my operations?

Although it does sorta suck that I can't play and there is literally no help or answer from Riot.


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JC DaFORCE

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Junior Member

05-22-2011

Great suggestions so far. For those who are reading this thread to get out of ELO hell but aren't doing what's been recommended... then maybe you really deserve to stay in there.

Here's my 2 cents to add on what's been already suggested:

1. Be really good with 3-4 champs with 3-4 roles. IMO there are 5 roles to play: AD, AP, bruiser, support, tank. IMO the biggest reason to do this is that draft pick causes problems if you're last or 2nd last pick. If you only know how to play AP, and you're last pick, and your team already has too much AP, and no tank, and no jungle... are you going to lock in your one and only AP champ? Or are you going to pick a jungle tank that you have no idea how to play? Either way you're putting yourself at a disadvantage, simply because you can't play enough roles. Also as already mentioned, ELO hell has an abundance of AP/AD solo lane players... so training up on supports/tanks/junglers is a great benefit.

2. Just because a few high ELO players said you're great, doesn't mean you're great. They saw one snapshot of you in one moment/game and made a compliment. That doesn't mean you're great in all games, in all situations, against different opponents. Maybe the truth is that, it's not you who's good, but it's just your opponents are really really bad. It's like saying "I saw Phreak's Champion Spotlight and I think this champ is gooooood!". Obviously we know that Champion Spotlights are fabricated and Phreak is outleveling his lane opponents by 2-3 everytime. On the contrary if someone called you bad in a game, does that mean you're really baaaaaaad? No right? Let results speak for themselves.

3. Learn to play against your 6th opponent: RIOT. Sometimes you gotta treat ranked games like entering a battlefield: If the odds are good, you initiate the war. If the odds are bad, you don't. Every two weeks when RIOT comes out with an OP champ that wrecks you every game... or when RIOT decides to nerf your main champ, or nerf your core items... stop playing. Take some time off and learn a new champ or read some guides. Grinding it through will only make your rating suffer. I've been forced on a few occasions to take a 2 week break from ranked games or to completely stop using one of my main champs because of RIOT's patches.

4. Normal games are a joke. There are games where there's no tank, no jungler. There are people with missing rune pages, leavers, feeders, ragers, quitters etc. There will be people playing a champ for the first time. There will be people that don't ward, don't dragon, don't baron, don't gank, don't support, don't push, and don't speak english. Therefore don't treat normal games as an indication of your skills. There's just too much randomness going on so stay with ranked games if you want to get better. Normal games are for people to test run new champs/builds and for losers who can't handle the competition in ranked games.

Feel free to buddy list me.


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CiDevant

Member

05-22-2011

The way match making works is flawed.

Most of the system is dedicated to making sure you don't wait 30 seconds or more to play in queue.
That's the first flaw, Not taking the time to match properly in the first place and assuming we don't want to wait 3-5 minutes to play a game that is going to last ~ 30-45 minutes.

The second flaw is the fact the system matches players based on giving a 50% chance to both teams.
The only factor it takes into account is ELO which is based on win/lose ratio. It doesn't take into account how you won or lost, or what role you played in the game or even what kind of character you were playing. This leads to an imbalance. Simply, Elo was designed for Chess, where the game is 1v1 and is only based upon your own merit, not the ability of 5 random people to work together.

Also, Elo will makes a bell curve where 75% of the population will (should) be within ~300 points of each other. Normally in chess a ratings difference of 100 points gives a 64/36 split in favor of the higher ranked. I don't believe this is taken heavily into account when match making finds a game in 15 second for 10 people. 100 points is a huge freaking deal in chess.

Finally,

Quote:
We use various proprietary methods to identify new players who are significantly more skilled than a typical new player, and they receive an Elo bonus.
So yes when your friend who was new won 5 games in a row, the system awarded him much more point than you received for that same game even though you carried him.

Source: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/learn...ay/matchmaking

If your ranking measures anything it is your ability to lead a team to victory however it is mostly a measure of your personal luck at getting not ****ty teams to start with.