Malzahar's Ult

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Steelflame

Senior Member

04-24-2011

Alistars ult negates the CC of it, and makes you effectively damage immune. and if a teammate is hit, ali has 2 CCs that can counter malz ult.

He is also good at feeding his teammates via his CC combo


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Fluffy1

Senior Member

04-24-2011

heres a better idea, get someone on the team with an interupt to stop his ult as soon as he starts. if your team has no stun/silence/knockup then you lost from champ select.


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Modevasion

Senior Member

04-25-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalshazzak View Post
It's not OP because it's single target and locks malz into place via channel. The suppression part while strong (it is not affected by merc treads btw) is easily countered by QSS. Now in response to your 95% of champs would rather spend the money else-where remark; if malz via his ult is killing you, WTF are you doing not buying it. If you spend the money else-where, great you have more damage, but you still are getting lit-up by Nether Grasp. The only thing I agree with you on is his ult having slightly too good of an AP ratio.


The best way to counter is to just dedicate a team-mate with a hard CC to wait for his ult. Morg can be an okay counter, but if malz can land Q on morg or to break Black Shield before using the ult then the lack of immediate hard CC becomes a hinder to countering imo. I'm pretty sure Eredas is wrong about GP. Scurvy to my knowledge only removes movement impairing CC, so blinds and silences are unaffected. I've never had a GP remove Nether after landing CotV, but that could just be great timing+luck. Soraka is the biggest pain the the ass imo. MR aura, a heal to negate your burst, and an instant long range silence to stop the ult cold if used on the carries.
ok, so wat i meant about the 95% of champs would rather spend the item on something else, I was referring to this: if ez rushes qss because he's mid against malz, he's useless till he builds some damage... I'm not exaggerating, he's completely useless with no damage. So what you're saying is im FORCED to be useless for another 10+ minutes early game where many games begin to take shape, so that I don't die? I might have exaggerated a bit on the 95%, tanks, and people that don't need dps really aren't affected by it. But nether grasp still does a **** load of damage even if you qss within the first second. His combo will just melt one on one champs, and mr doesn't help much, because his ap ratio on that thing is just too good for a caster.

Also, the only thing i'm saying is OP about it, is the damage and relatively low cooldown. Suppression is needed to not make it useless, I have no problem with that. I just don't think a champ should be able to melt a tank mid game in one combo.


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Levinath

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Junior Member

04-25-2011

Quote:
Also, the only thing i'm saying is OP about it, is the damage and relatively low cooldown. Suppression is needed to not make it useless, I have no problem with that. I just don't think a champ should be able to melt a tank mid game in one combo.
1.) He effectively CCs himself for the time it takes to ult.
2.) Even with cdr his spells are on longer cooldowns than a lot of AP carries. Veiger can blow up people just about as well and its just a faceroll across keys and walk away in the same second. If, for some reason, veigar doesn't kill you with a full combo, his Q is back up in 3 seconds easy. If Malz combo bombs you and you don't die from the initial burst, he is sitting there for 5+ seconds before any spell comes off CD. Same with Annie, tibbers bomb + breath is far more powerful in a close quarters team fight.
3.) And if he is melting your tank mid game, your tank did his job and ate the damage for the carries, why did your carries not 2 shot the Malz? On a semi-intelligent, moving target, its somewhat difficult to hit the pool and wall and get your aids and ult before they move out of the former two spells. If you decided to try and solo him as melee with his ult off cooldown then how is it different from trying to solo a trynd with his ult is off cd? Don't do it.


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Modevasion

Senior Member

04-25-2011

I chose to use a tank as an example because that's a target he can SAFELY (if his team is doing its job) nuke to oblivion. If a malz goes out of position to nuke a tank, he's not the one I'm talking about. His ult does 'stun' him, but like i said, he can use it well from a relatively safe distance.

A team in a team fight with no tank is screwed against a team with all 5 members, i.e. the amount of time it takes to nuke him down means he did NOT do his job. It's effectively a 4 vs 5 at this point, with a team that is about to get raped in 4-8 seconds when malz's abilities goes off cooldown (he's not useless with no ult). He still has his voidling that does a deceptive amount of damage even when his abilities are on cooldown, his dot will also move on to another champ if one is near the one who got nuked the **** out of as well, doing some significant damage as well.

Veigar has a far weaker early game, and is much easier to zone than malz. Annie is also a very strong caster. And i have a lot of trouble with her early to mid game, but I dont' have trouble with her late game unless she's ridiculously fed and can burst you down in one combo.. my main problem is that stacking mr DOESN'T DO MUCH against malz, his ap ratios are too good for what he does. But like I said, he's only slightly OP imo, if his ult wasn't up as regularly as it is, or if the ap ratio was reduced a bit, it'd be much more balanced.

You guys who are saying its no big deal, does malz not do consistently well during your games?

EDIT: of course a tank who doesn't get qss against a malz is a fail tank, but a lot of people forget to use qss in the heat of the moment at this elo. I'm sure its easier to counter in higher elo.


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larkhill

Senior Member

04-25-2011

the problem with malz is he can only really kill 1 person in a teamfight. he's the mage equivilant of xin. all u really gotta do is wait for him to ult someone, then blow him up. thats it. without his ult he's useless. it's borderline op for a reason.


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Valtegor

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Senior Member

04-25-2011

While his ult does decent damage and scales nicely with AP, it's not really the ult that kills you.

It's that you are likely half health to begin with and he ults you with a combo in his W, which does a large portion of the damage you are seeing. The best thing you can do is bait the void zone and move out of it before the suppression hits. He has limited range and if you stay at the outer range he won't be able to combo you (without flash). The ult alone won't kill you before you flash away - if it does, you should have b'd to start with.


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Cerubois

Senior Member

04-25-2011

Tip. Don't 1v1 Malz.

While I'm at it, don't 1v1 Tryndamere either.


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Kalshazzak

Senior Member

04-25-2011

OP, Null Zone is Malzahar's highest damage ability late-game. The reason you get the QSS is to not only get out of the suppression, but to also gtfo of Null zone to drop his combo's damage by a large margin. He can melt tanks because of Null Zone's %hp damage. The ult on tanks is mainly to keep them in Null Zone because it will far out-damage Nether Grasp.

Also, 100 second CD isn't very short. Off the top of my head only Fiddle, Panth, Morg, and Amumu have higher CD damaging ults.(they are all AoE though)

I see more bad Malzahars than good because of how reliant he is on team-mates and summoner spells for escapes.


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The Govenor

Junior Member

04-30-2011

If you are playing a skilled malz, the only way to prevent it is to send tanks in first to force him to use it. or have someone with a stun just waiting for his ult. but if he is good enough you are SOL. From experience playing malz.


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