My - Ap Shaco, need advice cannot win 5v5 pub

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Sesame chicken

Member

03-02-2010

Shaco is my absolute favorite char… I just cannot win 5v5 with him for the life of me no matter how well I am doing.

My build is as follows
1. Jack (must have for killing golem and gaining 1 level on everyone else + buff, even if you AD you’re an idiot not to kill golem off the bat)
2. Shiv
3. Deceive
4. Shiv
5. Deceive
6. Clone
7. Shiv
8. Deceive

I tend to forget after this but basically my priorities are Clone > Shiv > Deceive > Jack

My item order
Regrowth pendant
Philosophers stone
Amplify tome
Boots
Sheen
Situational (mercury treads or sorcerers boots)
Blasting wand
Then Zhonya’s ring, Lich bane, or Archangels staff each one depending

As a side note I also play Sivir about as frequently as Shaco especially since i keep loosing with Shaco and rarely Nunu.
As I progress my abilities to predict movements /behaviors is increasing but my 2-1 record is now a loosing record since the past week. Sometimes I am double digit kills to 1-3 deaths, more frequently is a 3-1 record though. The issue is that I keep loosing 5v5 as I join by myself or with a friend.
Unless I pop clone, pushing a lane is difficult to get far, but any enemy champion is a nonissue except for a few. No AD Shaco has ever been better then me, nor be able to 1v1 me (this may be arrogant, but maybe the caliber of AD I have played is just low, but jitb + shiv with ridiculous crit and damage = gg, plus I still normal attack crit for 300+). That is why I am reluctant to switch. Is there something I need to do besides scare enemies and gank? Is it because I cannot strongly push a lane far that we loose? I am starting to think if I want to win I cannot play Shaco, no matter how well I do…
Any advice or recommendations on gear, strategies or team play with Shaco would be useful.


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Rancid Sac

Senior Member

03-02-2010

invite any good players on your teams to do a premade with you


premades generally put you against harder opponents but when your team is good too... then it's worth it


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Etyn

Senior Member

03-02-2010

its the AP part that makes me say. Its your Shaco.





(Also. With the recent patch, Shaco is less viable because ganking has become less viable. The emphasis is on laning, not ganking.)


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condon

Senior Member

03-02-2010

I play a fair amount of AP Shaco, so purely in reference to your build I have this to offer:

JitB is a ridiculous damage source, even without laying nests. Spamming shiv isn't worth the mana early, so I usually leave it until after Jitb is maxed.

There are other tips I'd offer, but if you wanted my opinion on a build you could just skim through another guide.

In regards to handling games soloing or two manning, there really isn't a whole lot you can offer without proper coordination. My best advice is to set up small nests *2 or three boxes* in bushes where the enemy frequents, specifically if your team is going to push a lane. Remember to use them as roadblocks, traps, vision, AND teleport platforms. They are a useful tool, even with a minute and a half lifespan.

Make sure you stay out of sight as much as possible once the roaming stage begins. If the enemy team doesn't know where you are, they will be more cautious, or at least more paranoid.

Control the forest! You can run the show in the twists and turns of the jungle. Keep boxes posted and keep vision for yourself and your team. Words can not describe how much mobility matters on the grander scale in this game, and AP Shaco is an expert in hampering enemy movement.

Other than that, queue with more friends, or invite people who play well.


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UnyieldingDeath

Junior Member

03-02-2010

yo man, first thing, JitB(jack in the box) >shiv, think about it, shiv is always a 1:1 scale as you level it it increases base dmg, and some precenteges(not quite sure which ones). Jitb scales insanely well with AP and does better at higher lvls and gives more returns then shiv, it gives a 2.8, if all shots hit, a terror, cd maybe? also you can get kills straight off of jitb by itself if you stack them, with exhaust jitb can get kills all by themselves.

You should never follow an exact bo, alot of things are situational. Sometimes I go fore philosophers or chalice of harmony. the chalice gives greater mana returns and is more usefull unless being harassed, in my opinion. Meja's soulsteeler is one of the best items for AP, in my opinion, especially with shaco. As shaco you should be getting kills and mejas is generally the first or 2nd item i get.

Don't be afraid to stack jitbs in piles as it is generally your main dmg dealer, atleast for me. one jitb by itself at lvl 5 ca do ~400 dmg with magic pen it only goes up. cd reduction is good.

How are you criting over 300? unless you include the dmg from sheen and lich bane. with shaco if you could refer to the crit on exiting decive as decive dmg it would b easier for some people to understand what you are saying.

umm thats all i got, if anythings hard to understand pm me ingame or post back but just a fair warning I don't normally check the forums.

You could also try reading other guides already posted I personally like this one: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...ad.php?t=22501

The only thing that I can think of to disagree with this guide is getting your ult late game. I think you can benifit greatly from having lvl 1 in your hallu, as it can save your life, tower dive push extra dps etc. it also helps to farm golem at lvl 6 as I like to get golem faster rather then slower stacking jitb.


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mOeeOm

Senior Member

03-02-2010

AP shaco only needs one level of deceive....stop leveling it up. Maximize your other stuff first. You also need to get mejai fast.


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Churchy

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Friend of Urf

03-02-2010

The recent patch hardly affects shaco unless its the type of game where you are going 9-0 in the first 5 minutes.
I may be incorrect, but if you are within 3 levels of your target you get the same exp as you did before the patch; 3 levels below and you get more, 3 levels above and you get less.
You can't feed off of the 0-4 level 1 as easily, but that rarely happens and if that's the case it's still a gg.


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Basist

Senior Member

03-02-2010

I love getting Deathfire Grasp on my AP Shaco. It does wonders, seeing as it does not un-stealth you just like shiv, so you can do a quick double nuke before you pop out to stab them in the back. Also popping it first to get the maximum damage possible helps with Shaco's quick gank, and to whittle down those hp fountain champs. Ap, cooldown, mana regen, and a damage all in 1? It's one pretty package for Shaco.

Strategies for AP Shaco...there really is not much. You have to be very passive while you chip away at them, because compared to a dmg Shaco, decieving in and slashing away at them is not a very good option. Only do such when you know you can get the kill and get out safely. Since my AP Shaco playstyle is very ninja-like, I don't go for phil. stone unless I'm racking up a lot of kills early.

My typical starter build is -

Meki Pendant
Boots
Save up til I can complete Fiendish Codex and boots of choice. For most games I get boots of mobility, since you can run in quick and throw your shivs/lay boxes and get out quickly. Also it helps running to lanes and helping out your friends.
Then I finish Deathfire Grasp.

After that it's pretty situational towards the enemy team, but I always get Lich Bane.

Decieve, deathfire, stab, shiv, stab, jitb, stab is a very good hit combo when you have Lich Bane. The only thing you can do is practice AP Shaco, making adjustments. I used to only play phys Shaco until he got nerf smacked, so AP is the only one I play now and I love it.


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Sesame chicken

Member

03-03-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by condon
JitB is a ridiculous damage source, even without laying nests. Spamming shiv isn't worth the mana early, so I usually leave it until after Jitb is maxed.
I usually kill golem... puts me at 280/280 exp with minions... going to my lane dropping 2/3 jitb while i level in the water bush. usually i can pull a hero or 2 into the trap and get first blood, however when i try to do this later in game i tend to spend 2 much time placing jitb in a nest rather then gaining much needed experience or damage. therefor after i tried maxing jitb asap i did worse in my games cause i was to relient on them walking into them or a minion taking the damage... therefore i generally use it as a fearing tool? map scouting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnyieldingDeath
Don't be afraid to stack jitbs in piles as it is generally your main dmg dealer, atleast for me. one jitb by itself at lvl 5 ca do ~400 dmg with magic pen it only goes up. cd reduction is good.

How are you criting over 300? unless you include the dmg from sheen and lich bane. with shaco if you could refer to the crit on exiting decive as decive dmg it would b easier for some people to understand what you are saying.
yea does insane damage but if i waste 2 much time placing more than 1-2 i start loosing much needed experience or ganking opportunities. Possibly better placement or laying 1... walking back after cd and laying another 1 is the method?

300 with normal head to head attack, no exiting (runes + mastery) i had a 398 crit at lvl 14 with sheen from infront of my target non stealth

Quote:
Originally Posted by mOeeOm
AP shaco only needs one level of deceive....stop leveling it up. Maximize your other stuff first. You also need to get mejai fast.
I might try 1 level of decieve next game with the jitb as higher priority, as for mejai... it seems like i can never get to 20 stacks, so i almost find it a waste... granted every stack gives 9.2 ap but i just seem to not see as much benefit as sheen and placing emphasis on other ap items for the money...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basist
I love getting Deathfire Grasp on my AP Shaco

Meki Pendant
Boots
Save up til I can complete Fiendish Codex and boots of choice. For most games I get boots of mobility, since you can run in quick and throw your shivs/lay boxes and get out quickly. Also it helps running to lanes and helping out your friends.
Then I finish Deathfire Grasp.
I have been considering trying it out by i always wonder if i am competent enough to click on the icon and remember to use it...if i could make it a keyboar key that would be much more helpfull...

That is an interesting build order but i might have to try it once... after all i need to find what works best, and even though what i have works really well, its fun to try new things


Thank you for the advice guys, I think if i could premade it would help a lot more but it seems like i need to control more of the forest and pray that my team is capable of being a team.

Should i not worry about pushing a lane but rather killing the enemies so my team can push...? what if none of them are good lane pushers like ashe or sivir?


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Remunial

Senior Member

03-03-2010

AP Shaco doesn't need to level up deceive more than level 1. Also, JitB is your friend. It does so much damage through-out the game it's just dumb not to use it. If placed strategically you can weaken or even kill unsuspecting champions.

Also, I love playing as Singed/Alistar and having a good AP shaco on my team. He will place his nest of JitB and I will stun+headbutt or toss them into it for a pretty quick kill. These 2 champs go great with Shaco and it would be wise to try to add a Singed/Alistar player to your friends list anyway.


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