Snowball Jax: Item Theory

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AutoSponge

Senior Member

03-03-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meepro View Post
You forget that besides more dmg = more hp, more dmg also = more survivability due to killing some1 faster even if u're slowed (not talking about teamfights)
I already showed how AP Jax can burst higher than DPS Jax in another thread. Both AP and DPS are viable and hybrid may be the best approach (a lot harder to break down). In 1v1, Jax with more dmg (AP or AD doesn't matter) you win--hell, you should always win 1v1. But in a team fight (most games above level 20 are) Jax will get focused and he doesn't have an escape move so you better buy a defense item. If it's not Warmog's, I'd go with Banchees, but that's practical application and this was a theoretical exercise.

Plainly put, Warmog's is one of the best items in the game fully stacked. Any of the progressive items are. But as you can see, to get the same HP, you have to spend 9k on just AD items--even with mostly theory behind this I can tell that's not realistic.

edit: and another point. Other characters like Ryze have better burst. So you better have enough HP to survive his burst before you drop your own DPS. Besides, there's no good early AD item for Jax. Pendant or shield make the most sense--if you get pendant, you can at least turn it into a game-breaking item later, shield just gets sold.


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FeLpZ

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Recruiter

03-03-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoSponge View Post
I already showed how AP Jax can burst higher than DPS Jax in another thread. Both AP and DPS are viable and hybrid may be the best approach (a lot harder to break down). In 1v1, Jax with more dmg (AP or AD doesn't matter) you win--hell, you should always win 1v1. But in a team fight (most games above level 20 are) Jax will get focused and he doesn't have an escape move so you better buy a defense item. If it's not Warmog's, I'd go with Banchees, but that's practical application and this was a theoretical exercise.

Plainly put, Warmog's is one of the best items in the game fully stacked. Any of the progressive items are. But as you can see, to get the same HP, you have to spend 9k on just AD items--even with mostly theory behind this I can tell that's not realistic.

edit: and another point. Other characters like Ryze have better burst. So you better have enough HP to survive his burst before you drop your own DPS. Besides, there's no good early AD item for Jax. Pendant or shield make the most sense--if you get pendant, you can at least turn it into a game-breaking item later, shield just gets sold.
stop relying so much on theory and play the **** game..

i can easily easily stack 9k on just dmg alone, and it usually goes above that depending on how long the game is.


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AutoSponge

Senior Member

03-03-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeLpZ View Post
stop relying so much on theory and play the **** game..

i can easily easily stack 9k on just dmg alone, and it usually goes above that depending on how long the game is.
I'm at work. Can't play. But I can think about playing--which with my brain is still pretty awesome, but yeah... I wish I were playing.

I certainly will try a DPS Jax tonight (if no one else picks him) but since I play tanks most of the time, I have to pick Alistar if no one picks a tank (I'd rather win with Alistar than lose with Jax).

I can usually only get 1 game with Jax a night. But I'll keep trying. I still think there's a great build out there but you don't need to necessarily find it to be awesome with Jax. He's just really good right now. Add AP, add AD, add both, it's all good.

This thread was really just supposed to be a "what's better this or that" discussion. Instead it turned into a flame war over Warmog's. So, I apologize if I wasn't clear before--or in the thread title--I wrote this because I can't play right now so it's theory. But my theories usually pan out when I put that much time into the analysis.


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Dragonmount

Senior Member

03-03-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeLpZ View Post
stop relying so much on theory and play the **** game..

i can easily easily stack 9k on just dmg alone, and it usually goes above that depending on how long the game is.
9k is probably about the average gold earned per game for a character with average farming ability. You still need money for boots, wards, and pots.

I ran a game with Jax just a while ago with tabi, soulstealer, rylais, bloodthirster.. had fairly good results. I wish I would have gone Atmas instead of the bloodthirster, though.


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AutoSponge

Senior Member

03-03-2010

I think the higher ELO game you're in, the less benefit you have from stack items--people just aren't as reckless. 2-3 team fights and the game is over. So, hopefully my list will be of more benefit to those players who need to know just how many stacks on X is worth it compared to flat damage from Y.


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Doctor Dreidel

Senior Member

03-03-2010

This is interesting; good stuff.


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Veraticus

Member

03-03-2010

This is very interesting indeed.

Ignore the people who are mocking you for doing the math. Breakdowns like this show very interesting things -- like the unexpected value of Warmogs and that Soulstealer is probably a good idea for Jax. I think the conclusion we can draw from this unequivocally is that a hybrid of DPS and AP is the way to go, and that if you ever encounter any survivability problems that Warmog's is an excellent investment.


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typhoid fever

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03-03-2010

Thank you for taking my suggestion and adding some damage analysis to accompany your value proposition!

However the lack of an inclusion of any sort of armor pen or magic pen in your analysis is really painful for the PvP aspect of your analysis. It's like your lists are only really for NPC minions (not golem or lizard) and maybe turrets (but turrets have armor so not really for them either).

You might try a simple inclusion of the assumption the target has 30 armor/magic res as well.


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