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Sion: AP or AD?

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DÓA

Senior Member

04-25-2011

Quote:
Jeremee:
AP sion is a team player. AD sion is a 1v1 champ ONLY. His ult is really just for healing after an incredible 2k damage nuke on their entire team, followed by being focus'd hard. Think about nasus. Tank Nasus = legit, while AD Nasus = Pubstomper. AP sion = legit, while AD sion = Pubstomper.



Pretty much exactly this IMO.

AD is fun for pubstompin. AP you will see more for tryhardin as he brings more.


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bylobog44

Senior Member

04-26-2011

Quote:
noisvuli:
The stun nerf was a bigger nerf to AD because 1.5 secs is enough to get into shield explosion range, but barely enough to get into melee range. And AP relies on burst, whereas AD has to stay on his target.

AD sion is more fun though, but AP seems to be the dominant way to play him unfortunately.


True - but the stun is about the only thing that AP Sion brings to the team fight - the shield does no damage in team fights because it is taken down almost immediately. Flash, Exhaust, Ghost or a Frozen Mallet can all keep AD Sion on target. But I could agree, that the nerf hurt both builds, and I suspect most AP Sion summoners play the way I do, and skill up Enrage and add AD/AS for the mid-to-late game.

I expected a nerf to his stun, because so many whiners were crying about it, but I expected it to be scaled by level rather than a flat reduction.


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DÓA

Senior Member

04-26-2011

Quote:
bylobog44:
True - but the stun is about the only thing that AP Sion brings to the team fight - the shield does no damage in team fights because it is taken down almost immediately. Flash, Exhaust, Ghost or a Frozen Mallet can all keep AD Sion on target. But I could agree, that the nerf hurt both builds, and I suspect most AP Sion summoners play the way I do, and skill up Enrage and add AD/AS for the mid-to-late game.

I expected a nerf to his stun, because so many whiners were crying about it, but I expected it to be scaled by level rather than a flat reduction.



If the stun is all the AP sion is bringing to the fight then he is intiating the fight incorrectly. Not getting your shield bursted is the difference between good and bad for AP sion.


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bylobog44

Senior Member

04-26-2011

Quote:
DOA Monkey:
If the stun is all the AP sion is bringing to the fight then he is intiating the fight incorrectly. Not getting your shield bursted is the difference between good and bad for AP sion.


The first combo is a given, but after that it's more iffy. You're next "combo" is just as likely to be stun only, unless you withdraw, reset and re-enter, but 12 seconds (8 for cool down, 4 to recharge the shield) is a long time to be "out" of the team fight. Cryptic Gaze (stun) can be very opportunistic, but death's caress (shield) requires anticipation of where things are going to be 4 - 10 seconds in the future. It really depends on how dynamic the battle is - if it's moving, if it's in the jungle versus the river or a lane, or on a base, if your team is winning or losing, how much CC the other team has, etc.


But I haven't seen a lot of people play AP Sion in the way you suggest - strictly AP using the Stun-Shield combo only. Most people build some AD/AS/Crit and after the initial combo, E + R and melee until Q&W are off cooldown. In this situation, where you are closely engaged with enemy champions, your shield is not really much of a weapon.


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Spluuge

Member

04-26-2011

I've played a good amount of both AP and AD Sion and they're both a ton of fun. I've found that most people have the right idea about AP being stronger early while AD being stronger late, but if you commit to full AP and hit very high AP with a lichbane you can kill any non tank with a stun, shield, AA combo. Each one of those abilities can hit 700+ when farmed/ built properly which is pretty easy on AP Sion. It feels like cheating though since it's easy to accomplish in normals. I've found AD much more fun, unless of course I'm denied hard early since you need at least a ghostblade and a zeal to start putting the hurt on people.


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DÓA

Senior Member

04-26-2011

Quote:
bylobog44:
The first combo is a given, but after that it's more iffy. You're next "combo" is just as likely to be stun only, unless you withdraw, reset and re-enter, but 12 seconds (8 for cool down, 4 to recharge the shield) is a long time to be "out" of the team fight. Cryptic Gaze (stun) can be very opportunistic, but death's caress (shield) requires anticipation of where things are going to be 4 - 10 seconds in the future. It really depends on how dynamic the battle is - if it's moving, if it's in the jungle versus the river or a lane, or on a base, if your team is winning or losing, how much CC the other team has, etc.


But I haven't seen a lot of people play AP Sion in the way you suggest - strictly AP using the Stun-Shield combo only. Most people build some AD/AS/Crit and after the initial combo, E + R and melee until Q&W are off cooldown. In this situation, where you are closely engaged with enemy champions, your shield is not really much of a weapon.


The way I typically build him is full AP + survival item. I never mix in AD as I do not prefer the hybrid.

The idea is that if you enter the battle correctly you bring a very nice aoe burst. You are correct in that you are limited in your options once there, but it all depends on your lichbane proc's. Thats what you have to remember with Sion. Once you are there, its about triggering proc's or gtfo.

One of the key things is to wait before hitting your ult to ensure one more lichbane proc... then its your stun... then your shield. Now ever proc is serious business if you are anywhere near completing your build. With your ult up, now you actually steal a bit of life while churning out very nice dps... you have your full initial combo with one proc, ult and another proc...

Even if you stop there, something better **** well be dead. After that its invuln if targetted or try to get another proc off before death. If you got most of that off, you did your job.


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