Advice on sivir: Is this build viable?

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Rancid Sac

Senior Member

03-02-2010

Schizo - the reason I replied with that build rather than commenting on yours is because if your goal is to gank with Sivir, then you are not playing Sivir correctly. I once played a game in which there was a sivir on my team and one on the other team... Our Sivir bragged the whole game and ended up like 15/3/9, while the opposing Sivir ended up with something like 5/7/8.

After the game I informed our Sivir that he was an absolutely horrible sivir player and the other one was much better. Why? Because I had to keep their team from pushing our towers while our Sivir went to try and gank (I think I was Cho'Gath), meanwhile their towers were next to impossible to push because their Sivir was always there as soon as our minions were pushing foward.



If you want to gank on a semi-support use Ashe. Sivir is an incredible support and it amazes me to no end how many people try to turn her into a ganking champ.


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Schizofrenia

Junior Member

03-02-2010

many people tend to overestimate the chalice of harmony...
hers some figures about it, and sivir.
at level 18 sivir gets 9.4 mana/5 [BASE] add 7.5 mana/5 to that [chalice] ull come out at:
16.9 mana /5, now lets say u only have 1% of your mana remaining, ull gain an additional 99% mana regen. lets do the math here guys: 16.9+(16.9*0.99)=33.6 mana per 5... and this gets smaller and smaller each second. true, its THE best mana regen item out there, and its cheap as hell... but other then the mana regen and the MR it brings NOTHING else to the table for sivir... so using it early game is worth it to me, but late-game... id replace it with another item that also gives MP/5 but also brings some other things to the table...

and about the BB, true... it never really hurts MUCH, and granted... its damage gets reduced by 10% every time it hits an enemy, so especially in team fights its not really gonna make a big dent in people... maybe its better to focus on ricochet more.

but then again, i was focussing more on 1v1 with this build. boomerang will definatly leave a dent in people if it hits them and only them twice... still, you have convinced me to focus a little more on base damage with ricochet...


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Schizofrenia

Junior Member

03-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rancid Sac View Post
Schizo - the reason I replied with that build rather than commenting on yours is because if your goal is to gank with Sivir, then you are not playing Sivir correctly. I once played a game in which there was a sivir on my team and one on the other team... Our Sivir bragged the whole game and ended up like 15/3/9, while the opposing Sivir ended up with something like 5/7/8.

After the game I informed our Sivir that he was an absolutely horrible sivir player and the other one was much better. Why? Because I had to keep their team from pushing our towers while our Sivir went to try and gank (I think I was Cho'Gath), meanwhile their towers were next to impossible to push because their Sivir was always there as soon as our minions were pushing foward.



If you want to gank on a semi-support use Ashe. Sivir is an incredible support and it amazes me to no end how many people try to turn her into a ganking champ.
you sir... are absolutely right.
like i stated, my PC is busted so i cant play LoL at this moment... i was bored and was simply thinking about some ****, and i remembered a game where i ended with 17/1/9 simply by following my role as a pusher-supporter... and from there this whole idea came from...

but your right, you should build a champion around his/her strongest point, not around what u want to do with him/her, if i wanna gank... get an assasin class champ... sivir is a pusher/farmer, and should be built accordingly.

anyways, thank you all, i have stept off my delusional path :P


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EasymodeX

Senior Member

03-02-2010

Recently I've gone with a:

- Chalice
- Brutalizer
- Aegis of the Legion

Build on Sivir.

With a Stark's Rush I've noticed a distinct lack of HP/defensive stats in general, as well as raw damage.

From that point I jump to expensive **** -- either a Bloodthirster or Stark's, depending on how the game is going (or LW or Mandred's).


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wildfire393

Senior Member

03-02-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schizofrenia View Post
many people tend to overestimate the chalice of harmony...
hers some figures about it, and sivir.
at level 18 sivir gets 9.4 mana/5 [BASE] add 7.5 mana/5 to that [chalice] ull come out at:
16.9 mana /5, now lets say u only have 1% of your mana remaining, ull gain an additional 99% mana regen. lets do the math here guys: 16.9+(16.9*0.99)=33.6 mana per 5... and this gets smaller and smaller each second. true, its THE best mana regen item out there, and its cheap as hell... but other then the mana regen and the MR it brings NOTHING else to the table for sivir... so using it early game is worth it to me, but late-game... id replace it with another item that also gives MP/5 but also brings some other things to the table...
See, for Sivir I run Flat MP/5 in my Seals and one Quint, and two MP/5 @ 18 in my Glyphs, plus a 9/0/21 Mastery Spec. This gives me an extra ~10 MP/5 at first level, and that builds up to about 12 at 18. This means Chalice is giving me closer to 50-60 MP/5 when I'm drained of mana. With a Chalice and my set-up, I have no problem spamming Boomerang Blade every time it is up (and I have 15% CDR from my runes and masteries and often pick up a brutalizer for another 10%) while leaving Ricochet on and Ulting every two minutes.

Also @ OP, your build is terrible. Nashors does not do enough to justify the cost on sivir, as the 55 AP is largely wasted. Ditto Guinso. Stick to Chalice, Aura items (Starks/Aegis), and maybe some armor pen (Brutilizer, Last Whisper) and you'll knock towers right down while being a major boon to your team. If the game goes long enough that Chalice becomes worthless and you want something better, sell it for a Bloodthirster.


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Aeth

Member

03-02-2010

I disagree with the idea that AP Sivir is a waste of time. I also disagree with the assumption that building AP is building for ganks and that such a Sivir will have no pushing power. Let's talk about your build:

1) Boots
2) Nashor's Tooth
3) Stark's Fervor
4) Infinity Edge
5) Guinsoo's Rageblade
6) Phantom Dancer

I understand your rationale behind the Rageblade. AP, Attack Speed, and Damage... all things which help her out, right? If you want to get a Rageblade on Sivir, you need to build it much earlier in this build, probably before or at the same time as the Stark's. Why? Because of the strengths and weaknesses of Boomerang Blade, any AP equipment for Sivir must be built early/mid game. Boomerang Blade tends to be the most effective in the mid-game, because it's damage output is very high considering how spammable it is at higher ranks. However, it will start becoming less and less effective toward the end-game. Even if you ARE getting some good kills with it, after a certain point the longer you put off building damage/attackspeed items, the more you gimp yourself for those tense late-game teamfights.

There's another problem with the Rageblade which makes it inconvenient for Sivir, though by no means a horrible item for her. It's passive is only useful sometimes for Sivir. In certain teamfight situations, the Rageblade passive will successfully stack and increase your damage output. However, when mowing down creep waves, it is much faster to shoot the blade first and let the Ricochet's finish off the ranged creeps. By the time your Rageblade stacks, the creeps will be dead and you won't need the AP boost. The attack speed boost will let you kill them slightly faster, but not that much faster than normal. In any event, the stacks will fade before the next wave. Even when fighting enemy champs, most of the time you want to pepper them with blades from long range, and only get close enough to autoattack when your team is fully engaged, so your Rageblade stacks are only helping your damage output sometimes.

I doubt that a Nashor's Tooth would provide enough mana regen to properly spam both Ricochet and Boomerang Blade, which is extremely important in the laning phase to avoid getting outplayed. Even with a Chalice, Sivir has some mana regen issues until the early teens. Reducing her cooldowns and giving her less mana regen than a Chalice is going to be problematic if the enemy is properly aggressive.

As others have noted, Ricochet hits don't proc crits, so the Infinity Edge should be swapped with a Bloodthirster to maximize your total Ricochet dps.

Also, I don't think boots first is that great for Sivir. It delays your mana regen items too much. I'm assuming that you level Blade first, but when you build boots first you won't have enough regen to really throw out those level 3 and level 4 blades as often as you might like. The standard opener of Meki Pendant + 2 hp pots works really well for her.

Ok, all that said... I think I understand what you want to do with this build, and if I was trying to craft something similar it would look like this:
http://www.leaguecraft.com/builder/S...a57eaf6dc0f23f

Rushing the Haunting Guise gives you a decent hp5/mp5 boost, and cuts the MR down by 20, which increases your damage like AP would. It also gives your CD reduction to synergize with your Fiendish Codex. Don't finish the Nashor's Tooth immediately. Grab either the Stinger or the Codex and then build the Rageblade or the Wit's End. Finish Nashor's Tooth and get the item you skipped. If you are becoming too squishy at any point during the game immediately consider building either a Frozen Mallet or a Rylai's Scepter. In this build, I would favor the Scepter if I was securing the lizard buff fairly often, but would favor the Mallet otherwise.


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Nihil Sine Nefas

Senior Member

03-02-2010

How is going AP NOT building for ganks? It certainly doesn't help with tower pushing, unless you want to clear creep waves with 1 BB instead of 1 BB and 3 or 4 Richochets, which hardly makes a difference.


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junster

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Member

03-03-2010

Bainshee Veil !!


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Slide

Senior Member

03-03-2010

Anything with AP is a waste of time with Sivir. Of course you seem to have already come to that conclusion.

In fact, I am very pleased with how this thread went. For months I had to run around and give in depth explanations on why stupid builds dont work on Sivir. Im happy to see the community has finally embraced her as the support carry she is.

Most of the info in the thread was pretty good. Just remember there is a VERY good reason why Chalice and starks are a core part of every build.

As to chalice, yes it is not hundreds of mana per second. However, what it is is all the mana Sivir will ever need and some magic resist. All for pennies. A lot of us Sivir players also run with clarity glyphs to increase the early game power of chalice. I highly recommend it (in glyphs, seals, IMO should be dodge).

That all being said, in low ELO games, you can pretty much run whatever you want and still pubstomp. Its only when you have decent competition that you need to focus on what Sivir does best. Pushing and buffing.


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Schizofrenia

Junior Member

03-03-2010

wow, even after my epiphany this thread has continued to provide alot of information.
its pleasing to see the community work together in an adult debate-like fahion :P

i have now come to believe that you should always build a champion around his/her Strengths, and not her weaknesses.

sivir is best at pushing and supporting, and should be built accordingly.

tho, in the interest of healthy debate, lets continue a little further.

so, about the chalice, you are right that it doesnt give hundreds of Mp5... tho sivir doesnt really need it, its most definatly a core item in ANY sivir build.
and the rageblade, i agree is not THAT advantageous to have, as you will most likely OPEN with BB, so...

anyways, im now running with a build that focuses on attack damage, attack speed, chalice and starks. basically the usual support/pusher/creep melter.

all of this originally started as a debate as to whether its more advantageous to build her around AP, instead of support/damage.
and, as with any good debate, i listened and in this case was convinced

either way guys, good job keeping your cools and all that...
Have fun playing sivir yall, i know i will


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