Who Should Mid? Guide/Discussion

123
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Goodguy Hopper

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

04-19-2011

-----edit 4/21/11-----------
some people apparently can not pick up on context clues so ill put it very plainly for you-
Given no knowledge of the other teams composition who should mid?
Yes, i know that is abstract. Anyone with any college background could tell you that discoveries about efficiency start with abstract questions which weed out confounding/obscuring variables.
---------------------------------
So when i go into normal games people tend to just call mid and like small children calling the front seat expect that they now have rights to it... Unfortunately for these small children this is not your mom's car to the local store. This is more like a 747 flight final destination hell or glory. You all want to make it to glory right... of course you do.
Luckily in ranked games you won't normally have this problem as most ranked players 1300+ have a pretty good idea of who goes where.

Metaphors aside who should play mid? As a rule of thumb your "ranged AD carry" should. Now whoever fits the most of those three qualifying words should probably mid. Premise aside i will attempt to justify that now.

Your Ranged AD Carry has rights to mid for these reasons-

1. they can more easily play offense or defense in the lane by nature of being ranged. For another style of hero to press them they should be able to punish them on the approach and withdrawal. In short they do not need to extend as far to apply pressure to the opposing champ and they can easily stay in range to farm creep kills while forcing their opponent to extend very far out to attack them.

2. Your AD carry is going to need a whole **** load of money to be effective. It takes a series of items for them to become scary where as AP scale on a smoother curve. why? well take for example infinity edge(IE) versus deathcap two principally similar items. First deathcap is cheaper and second IE for most champs needs some crit to go with it to be at peak performance. The average build cost across the board for AD champs is simply higher.

3. Most ranged champs are squishy they need to be in the safest solo lane they can get. The mid lane is shorter than the solo sides and is therefore easier to withdraw to the safety of the turret. (ever notice how tanky dps ends up in the top lane?)

4. They are your carry if they are not able to melt face come late game you are going to lose to the opponents carry pure and simple. A good team can end the game early, but the reality is that some games you are going to get paired evenly and in those games you are not going to be able to win early. At those times it comes down to your AD carry (how well they are built, how good they are, your teams ability to defend them during team fights)

Ok assuming you accept my above reasoning we can go over how to use the above rule of thumb.

Use it to set priorities on people-

#1 priorities-
Ashe
Caitlyn
Miss fortune
Tristana
Corki
Twisted Fate
Sivir
etc...

#2
anivia
annie
brand
veigar
leblanc
lux
Malzahar
(any ranged ap carry or AD carry)

#3
renekton
teemo
mordekaiser
jax
vlad
akali
(any Tanky dps or ap/ad non-carry)

OK, Aly, I get what your saying but why do i see X in the mid or top sometimes, run by Y who i know is good?

Well, that is a total judgment call. In ranked games you can see your opponents team structure and make some pretty educated guesses about who will be where on the map. For example Kat can be a powerhouse early game if she gets fed which is pretty easy depending on her match up. For example - kat gets paired against an MF could be GG depends on how good the Mf is, or the KAT for that matter. MF's passive is not so hot against kat, and mf has no real way to stop kat's ult. You get the idea. So on a judgment call you may put kat mid knowing they will put mf there. Or similarly Jax to ashe, etc. However, if you do so what happens to your AD carry, well your late game will probably be worse if KAT doesn't beat their carry into the ground, but if she does you'll be better off for it. The best thing you can do, in my opinion, is to pair your carry with your support (you have a support right...) so that they can jack most of the last hits. I hear this style of play called euro style frequently but I'm an American so I prefer to call it goofy, not because it's terrible, but because it reminds me of skateboarding (plus I'm immature and saying they are playing goofy makes me chuckle)

TL;DR-
let your ranged AD carry mid

if you don't and you think your right by it but can't justify your reasoning beyond "I Vlad therefore i mid" you are wrong and a hazard to yourself and your team.

If you are capable of making judgment calls and decide to let an assassin mid try to pair your ad carry with a support so they can still farm.

As always i am interested in hearing other peoples thoughts and will edit/update this main post to reflect anyone's sound argument.

---------------------------------------
Other Guides I've been working on-
Runes per/lvl vs. falts - http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...74#post6809074
What runes to buy - http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=718599


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hedgemonster

Member

04-19-2011

While I agree that your arguments for having a ranged AD carry mid are good, you're ignoring that there are other good arguments for other champions to mid as well. I won't go into all of them; I'll focus only on Karthus.

In my experience, it is very rare for anyone to suggest Karthus shouldn't have mid. Let's look at the reasons why, in comparison to your reasons:

1. Karthus can safely harass and last hit better than almost any champion in the game, due to the high range, low cost, and low cooldown of lay waste.

2. If given a lot of farm early game, Karthus can become very useful to everyone (due to his ult). I haven't compared relative prices of AD and AP item sets, but there is no doubt that Karthus getting AP stacked is to the benefit of the team.

3. Karthus is as squishy as most ranged AD carries, and at least as slow.

4. Karthus is one of the few AP DPS casters in the game, so although he's not a carry, he still needs to be putting out a lot of damage per second late game to be effective.

5. This is probably the biggest reason Karthus almost always gets mid: his ult. The sooner Karthus can hit level 6, the less total health the enemy champs are, and the sooner they can be jumped and killed by Karthus' teammates + his ult. This early-game advantage can lead to lane dominance, early towers pushed, and a very strong entry into midgame.

I'm not writing this to say "I found one counterexample, therefore you're dumb." Rather, I think you have good points, but it's not a given that they are all that should be considered. All in all though, you're trying to teach people to actually think about why certain champions should be in certain lanes, and I respect and appreciate that.

tl;dr: Often times a ranged AD carry is best for mid, but there are other things that need to be considered which might result in a different mid sometimes.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Goodguy Hopper

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

04-19-2011

@Hedgemonster
very true and your right i totally overlooked karthus when i was writing this. I do however think you have found the exception to the rule. I am trying to think of other examples of players who you would rather have in mid and i can not think of any. Also i feel like you are gambling (not sacrificing) some potential power in the late game for an early game. If it pays off then karthus will help the ad carry secure kills and increase his own power as well.

I am thinking back to a game i watched treeeskimo stream here -
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=436098
I remember karthus actually started solo top letting ashe mid. Fully thinking about it i think it is simply crucial for karthus to get a solo lane not necessarily mid. I understand this is an appeal to authority, but i think it is a sound one.

At any rate thank you for your thoughts.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Eppa

Senior Member

04-19-2011

Please run this through spell check it is really hard to read.

I do not see a reason as why Kassadin has less right to mid than Caitlyn, Kass has hard time farming, mid is easy to farm. Kassadin is incredible late game, Caitlyn is not.

Physical dps are basically what they are in competitive DotA, a limiter to MR items the other team can get. Putting Akali mid basically says to an Ashe post 5 you are not getting half the cs you want.

Tanky dps are not really fotm any more but they used to rape ranged carries.

But what i am getting at guides should help people add things into their gameplay not limit people. Soraka has been mid for tournaments. Heimer has been mid for a lot of tourneys etc,


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Hedgemonster

Member

04-19-2011

@Alyssa Riel - yeah a 1v2 lane should be as good for Karth as mid in a lot of ways, although he may have more trouble shutting down the enemy champs. I don't have time to watch that game now, but I look forward to checking it out later - I'll let you know my thoughts then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eppa View Post
But what i am getting at guides should help people add things into their gameplay not limit people.
In general, guides are intended to help people understand how to perform better. A lot of times this can be positive information, like the famous "playing to be evil" guide (which is a phenomenal read for anyone who hasn't already seen it: http://www.leagueoflegends-wiki.com/...ing-to-be-evil); there, the author is explaining additional things that can be added to gameplay to improve it. However, it's equally appropriate for a guide to contain negative information, or things not to do - a guide on how to not feed, for example. Alyssa Riel is helping people think about and understand lane assignments - I don't know of any good players who would say that a grasp of what champions should be where is not helpful for improving one's gameplay, even if that grasp is only "I don't play the kind of champs who should mid, so I need to leave mid for those other champs".


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TurtleWorld

Senior Member

04-19-2011

TF is an AD carry?!?!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sarvanaasha

Member

04-19-2011

TF is not always an AD carry, and because of his stun and nice skillshot, he is HONESTLY much better in a lane dominating with a partner. It would help him get fed.

There are simply too many options for mid that just complicate the choices. For example, if they use a jungler that often runs low on health, having a Warwick mid can be truly devastating to his jungle. Vlad, Mordekaiser, and other tanky champions can often kill somebody the second they turn 6, and can escape ganks, which ashe cant do unless she uses flash. If they have a jungler who it will be difficult to escape from as a certain champ, they may not be able to mid. There are just way too man factors to say" Oh this should be mid" Also, AD carries items may cost more, but they honestly get just as much from their items as an AP item of the same cost would. Many AD champs can also sidelane with a tanky champ and end up really denying the opponent. It just depends.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ach003

Senior Member

04-19-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgemonster View Post
While I agree that your arguments for having a ranged AD carry mid are good, you're ignoring that there are other good arguments for other champions to mid as well. I won't go into all of them; I'll focus only on Karthus.

In my experience, it is very rare for anyone to suggest Karthus shouldn't have mid. Let's look at the reasons why, in comparison to your reasons:

1. Karthus can safely harass and last hit better than almost any champion in the game, due to the high range, low cost, and low cooldown of lay waste.

2. If given a lot of farm early game, Karthus can become very useful to everyone (due to his ult). I haven't compared relative prices of AD and AP item sets, but there is no doubt that Karthus getting AP stacked is to the benefit of the team.

3. Karthus is as squishy as most ranged AD carries, and at least as slow.

4. Karthus is one of the few AP DPS casters in the game, so although he's not a carry, he still needs to be putting out a lot of damage per second late game to be effective.

5. This is probably the biggest reason Karthus almost always gets mid: his ult. The sooner Karthus can hit level 6, the less total health the enemy champs are, and the sooner they can be jumped and killed by Karthus' teammates + his ult. This early-game advantage can lead to lane dominance, early towers pushed, and a very strong entry into midgame.

I'm not writing this to say "I found one counterexample, therefore you're dumb." Rather, I think you have good points, but it's not a given that they are all that should be considered. All in all though, you're trying to teach people to actually think about why certain champions should be in certain lanes, and I respect and appreciate that.

tl;dr: Often times a ranged AD carry is best for mid, but there are other things that need to be considered which might result in a different mid sometimes.

But Karthus is not easy to play. This is assuming your Karthus can PLAY Karthus. I have solo-ed as Ashe against even good Karthus-es (?) and mopped the floor with them. As an avid Ashe player I say that Ashe should have priority. I KNOW that I can play smart and farm well mid and that I will never get a death during the laning phase unless the mid champ I'm solo-ing against gets so rage-y that I've killed him 3 times that he keeps calling for ganks on me. Which usually fail because I have boots and I stay close to my turret. Ah I just love solo mid Ashe.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Mathgrind

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

04-19-2011

I disagree just about all of this guide. You need to consider match ups.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

The Real Loewen

Senior Member

04-19-2011

maokai is an amazing solo mid, i don't care what you say.


123