Countering a 5 man push team

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LolCatIsLol

Senior Member

02-27-2010

How do you do it? I just had a game where all the enemies did was stack health, backdoor, and run away once we appeared anywhere. Also, we couldn't push, because their champions were better pushers than us and the moment we pushed they would backdoor us. If we turtled, they would 5-man rush our turret (or inhib), losing 2 men in the process, kill it, then run off laughing. And even then we couldn't push because they would focus-fire our carries during the push, leaving only the tanks behind...


NOT NAME DROPPING HERE: Just showing their items and stats. I, as veigar, nuked TF or Sivir every team fight (I could KO them in 1 second) and our twitch got really fed, but they just focused twitch once he appeared... It was sooo dumb :/

http://tinypic.com/r/ev2n9u/6

Any advice on countering this strat? Also, any advice on how to survive a blitz+alistar laning combo?


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Mesa H

Senior Member

02-27-2010

can't say about the pushing part much, i came across the kind of playstyle a couple of times , u can't really come up with something good if ur playing with random guys and the other team is premade, but in ur game's case, i think if the sivir and or TF is that easy to kill, ur job should be making sure the other champs don't get away using horizon, and target alistar and rammus, i assume those two are responsible for the intense speed of pushing. one way to counter push is to target the main champ supporting the push.

as for the alistar blitz part, i haven't been "fortunate" enough to get that combination on the same lane, but i've seen teamates counter that by mostly keeping to last hits and not pushing hard, stay around tower range and dun forget blitz's grab can go thru enemy creeps, and basically just move around randomly when not last hitting. banshee is always useful, but most important is positioning, items can only help so much. dunno if this helps, sounds pretty vague in my own ears too, so just ignore it if u like.


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Polka Dot Robot

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Senior Member

02-27-2010

Stupid forum decided to not respond and my nice post got erased.

The jist of it was:

DPS' needed Last Whisper and Bloodrazers
Casters needed Deathfire and Void Staff
Singed stacked only armor, not much of a threat
Twitch needed Frozen Mallet and lifesteal if he was getting focued, and wait until dps were gone before appearing.

Blitz/anyone sucks. Just keep out of Blitz's grab and watch for Ali's knock-up. Should have had 2 ranged against them, gives lots of room to avoid Ali.


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LolCatIsLol

Senior Member

02-27-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mesa H View Post
can't say about the pushing part much, i came across the kind of playstyle a couple of times , u can't really come up with something good if ur playing with random guys and the other team is premade, but in ur game's case, i think if the sivir and or TF is that easy to kill, ur job should be making sure the other champs don't get away using horizon, and target alistar and rammus, i assume those two are responsible for the intense speed of pushing. one way to counter push is to target the main champ supporting the push.

as for the alistar blitz part, i haven't been "fortunate" enough to get that combination on the same lane, but i've seen teamates counter that by mostly keeping to last hits and not pushing hard, stay around tower range and dun forget blitz's grab can go thru enemy creeps, and basically just move around randomly when not last hitting. banshee is always useful, but most important is positioning, items can only help so much. dunno if this helps, sounds pretty vague in my own ears too, so just ignore it if u like.
I tried nuking blitz and ali, but my damage (even with voidstaff) barely scratched 50% of their health... because they stacked so much health. The thing is, after they push a turret, they run away, and we cant keep them in to finish them off because almost all of them had skills that gave speed buffs... after my horizon, they can just keep running.


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sainthero

Senior Member

02-27-2010

If you KO'd them then you couldve pushed even harder.


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Chasethedevil

Junior Member

02-27-2010

WARDS

If you would have invested some team gold into it

You could have know exactly where/when they are pushing and countergank them

Works really well for that kind of team :]

Oh and you need anti-HP stacker items, and to stack some HP yourselves


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Blaz3king

Senior Member

02-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chasethedevil View Post
WARDS

If you would have invested some team gold into it

You could have know exactly where/when they are pushing and countergank them

Works really well for that kind of team :]

Oh and you need anti-HP stacker items, and to stack some HP yourselves
Yea hes right there and you could of just travled as a 5 man team through jungle lookin for them.But the one thing i see that you made a mistake is your whole team are killers. No one can push a lane or tower for ****. Thats what they did they can push and take out a tower in a sec and run cause they have pusher charcters. I have experinced this problem many times. You always need 1 or 2 pushers on the team. A tank is important but can be lived without, but you probably die in 5v5 fights without one.But you always need pushers. I bet your game lasted a long time cause even if you can wipe you can barley take out a tower so they respawned when you got there and they just pushed a diffrent lane and made you retreat.


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Bubblemeat

Member

02-28-2010

I play taric and even when in a pub my teams usually becaome a push team mainly because it's kinda what taric is good for. things you might wanna look for is: health, armor, MR

Most pubs like to use cookie cutter builds, which is bad.
I say build around both group make ups. For attack damage dps, if there is a lot of armor/health stacking tanks, last whisper and bloodrazor is the way to go, having a starks ferver h elps as well if u have a group with a lot of attack damage toons. step outta your orignal build to make a little room. For casters get void staff or abyssal septer, or both.

sorry for bad punctuation and not capitalizing. didnt make it an effort lol.


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dredzach

Senior Member

03-03-2010

Laning Problem:

Alistar's heal causes his creeps to push toward your tower. Blitz does not really benefit from having his enemies sitting under their tower. Therefore, those two are a weak combo.

To lane against those two, just tower hug and don't let yourself get grabbed by blitz. This will cause them to get more and more aggressive and overconfident. Then when they screw up and attack under your tower or something you kill them.

I can see what happened in that game is Blitz grabbed you guys all game basically raping your team over and over. That is why you lost, not the pushing. Don't get grabbed. Simple.

=============================

Push-Stopping Problem:
There are a number of ways to reduce the effectiveness of enemy pushes. You cannot 100% stop it because they can always manage to hit a tower and if they do that enough times the tower is dead.

1. Win the team battles.
If you cannot win a team battle underneath your own tower, then why would you win the game?

2. Don't let the game drag on.
If the game goes on long enough, pushing becomes easier and easier.

3. Eliminate creeps.
If you pushed all the lanes away from your towers, then you would have time to get to your tower and defend.

4. Buy and place wards.
If you place a half dozen sight wards, you can see which lanes they are gonna try to push or backdoor. You can also see if the enemy is moving in a pack of 5 or split up. This is probably the most important thing you can do.

5. Fight in front of your tower rather than behind it.
If you know they are coming, and they are so tanky they can come in and start beating on your tower a bit even though you are defending, then it may be better to put your team between them and the tower. If you fight in front of the tower, then the tower will guard your escape route but still be farther away from the enemy. This is really only useful when you can win a team battle but their team is just hardcore pushing.


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Unhandled

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Senior Member

03-03-2010

I knew there was an Alistar on the team before I even clicked to see. A Sivir was no surprise either.

If you notice, his team even had more kills and lost.

My team and I lost a game we were winning with 43 kills to their 15, all because of the early laning power of Alistar and Heimer together with mana manipulators. Oh, and the anti-snowballing changes.

Alistar needs a serious nerf and no one is talking about it so just learn to play him and then your team will be the one winning.

Quote:
If you place a half dozen sight wards, you can see which lanes they are gonna try to push or backdoor. You can also see if the enemy is moving in a pack of 5 or split up. This is probably the most important thing you can do.
And if they aren't splitting up? How are you going to stop them? By laning faster than they can backdoor?