Olaf - WHY can't I do well as him.

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Prometheius

Senior Member

04-17-2011

Build Tanky DPS instead of wannabe-tanky DPS.

Randuin's, Stark's, Ghost Blade, Bveil, Merc Treads.

GG. Your autos, Q, and E put out true damage while having massive life steal.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Covenant

Senior Member

04-17-2011

"I KNOW this is a good build for him, it scales so well with him."

This is why you fail.

Terrible build honestly. Really bad. If you want to know the Ways of the Olaf, don't TL;DR me. Sit down and read this book here. Works for jungle and for lane:

----------------------begin epic tome here------------------------

First off, Frozen Mallet is almost worth it on nobody. Why would you want mallet? The Phage gets you nearly everything you want except a pile of extra hitpoints. But you could turn the giant's belt into something else, like a Sunfire Cape, and get that same pile of HP with something useful. But the main thing you need to realize is that you're buying a build in stages--each stage should support the next, with as few "big jumps" as possible. So you want something that ramps up into an unstoppable rampaging snowball about mid-game. So we need scaling.

Phage is nice but know what's even better than a phage? Landing your Q enough to slow the enemy down. If you're chasing a foe, do not rely on phage or mallet. Be faster than them, hit them with your axe, then hit them with it again, and again, and again. CDR is great, so randuin's used to be a must. No longer. Sad for Olaf, but just keep it in mind. You want to spam. I use CDR blues.

Zerkers are okay but not necessary for him. You want speedboots because, as we all know, speed kills. You can't be CC'd. Slows, stuns, fears, nothing. Make sure you spend more time hitting and less running.

Boots of Fastness
Wriggles Lantern (not because of the lifesteal OR the jungling, but because of the wards)
Banshee's Veil
Manamune

Okay, don't freak out. I can tell you're freaking out. Manamune? The worst item ever? On a non-mana tank? Yes, and here's why. Olaf loves to cast spells, a lot, though the only spells he knows are Axe and Angry. Olaf actually has a substantially high Base Mana score, so on him, Manamune gives lot more mana than you'd expect, and you'd be surprised how fast you blow through it. You'll need a Blue Gem at some point just to throw more axes. Turning it into AD, especially with the Ever-Necessary Banshee Veil, is handy.

This is one of Lanelaf's failings--he can't do much because he's short ranged, no dash, etc. But if you have a massive, ever-expanding manapool with a Catalyst healing and replenishing you... then yes, you really can be good in a lane even without a Regrowth. Start with a blue gem. Throw that axe to last-hit and harass. Own your zone.

With just these four items you get +98 AD, substantially more survival and flexibility, and incredibly sustainable fighting, all for less 7500gold. I give him tanky runes and masteries (1/18/11 when jungling) so I'm pretty durable and potent at midgame and I can throw axes, spam Reckless, and I'm never out of mana when I need it--and trust me as Olaf you'll hit a lot of times where you go "**** if I only had 30 more mana!"

After your cores, pick what you want. Game going awesome? Trinity Force on top of this makes your output astronomical as you cycle Q-W-E.

Going well but a little less gold? Phantom Dancer will maximize your killing potential and give you about 400 DPS even with tank masteries.

Need to be tankier against a nasty AD carry? Glacial Shroud into Frozen Heart not only gives you huge armor, it's the best way to cripple a carry from slowing their attack, increasing your CDR for faster Reckless spamming, and the usually-worthless mana gives you a +10 more AD for free--now you're up to 225. Or get the Aegis--it's cheap and great for everything, really. Hugely worth the cost for any kind of survival needs.

If they're hitting you badly with magic and you're dying too fast, Hexdrinker isn't such a bad item for you since it basically adds 300 extra hitpoints. You're almost out of decent MR items once you get Banshee's, since at this point what you need are more HP. If you're assuming you'll end up with more than 10k in gold, combining Hexdrinker and QSS or SV give you about 10k in effective anti-magic hitpoints which is pretty awesome for the price.

Overall, Olaf is weak. Why is he weak? Because he can't dash, he can't fly, or jump, or teleport, and his slow is a skillshot and it's hard to use at range. But he can be a beast if you keep his defenses high and remember to aim for the highest AD synergy possible. I like my build because it's pretty much autopilot and lets you spam spells constantly. You're going to want to do that, especially if you sneak a Sheen into the build.

My favorite item to end on would be Phantom Dancer, but Triforce works so great for his Q+E spam while also adding movespeed and slow-on-hit.

Adding extra HP is always nice, but I think Olaf is okay with around 2800HP. He's more or less a kamikaze champ who takes out the enemy's biggest damager and can solo anyone who he catches unaware, and the great thing about THIS build is that you can't get shut down early, since the items are cheap and it massively expands your Axe-spamming power for lane farming/jungling.

*you may be wondering why I don't get Bloodrazor, Ghostblade, or any other armor penetration items. The reason is that you simply do not see too many squishies carrying a lot of armor. I almost never see any non-tank with any armor, unless it's a thornmail later on. You have 30 armor pen from Ragnarok and 15 from Runes. Someone like Ashe or Brand will have Armor in the 70's, so you've already torn off most of their armor.

If you want to get rid of the other 25 or so and don't want to just leave an unfinished Brutalizer in your inventory, my favorite item for the job is Sword of the Divine. It's cheap to make, and even though it isn't as good as Ghostblade overall, it adds more DPS even when it's active isn't up so it's more consistent. I feel, as Olaf, I tend to need Burst Penetration more than I need Burst Attackspeed, so if I need to shred a target and don't want to do it via E-Spamming alone, Divine would be my pick.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Phantom 2k

Senior Member

04-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prometheius View Post
Build Tanky DPS instead of wannabe-tanky DPS.

Randuin's, Stark's, Ghost Blade, Bveil, Merc Treads.

GG. Your autos, Q, and E put out true damage while having massive life steal.
You know he scales really well with HP right? That's why I feel like this build could be so amazing, and it is amazing when I'm not constantly dying and feeding - it's just hard to get it to be good.

I can try jungling, but dammit. He's one of my favourite characters and I really wish he could be viable while laning.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Phantom 2k

Senior Member

04-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant View Post
WALL OF TEXT
Actually some really nice suggestions there, thanks. I'll try it out next game I play. I just can't seem to grasp why my current build isn't viable, but I'll definitely try this out right now.

I'll tell you how it goes, thanks for all of those suggestions though, most of it makes a lot of sense.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Covenant

Senior Member

04-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom 2k View Post
Actually some really nice suggestions there, thanks. I'll try it out next game I play. I just can't seem to grasp why my current build isn't viable, but I'll definitely try this out right now.

I'll tell you how it goes, thanks for all of those suggestions though, most of it makes a lot of sense.
Olaf used to be a lot more straightforwards, but all his favorite items got nerfed or removed entirely and now he is sad. Going full DPS fails because his escape power is crud and he can't go invincible like Trynd.

Getting Ghostblade and Mallet like some people suggest makes sense on paper but it ends up being a very expensive midgame build with low flexibility and low durability despite the HP and lifesteal. It's not a fail build but it's kinda one-dimensional and relies a lot on people being afraid of him and not just popping him instantly.

And the most obvious tank build, Warmog+Atmas+Mallet, simply falls over spectacularly. Now that his W's damage-from-health scaling has been nerfed into the ground there's much much less benefit to hitpoint stacking, and he's never really recovered. His DPS took several major hits, they gutted his items, and they never adjusted it back.

So the mallet build.... By default his spells are expensive so he ends up quickly with no mana, can't make the best use of his spam, he's slow, and he has no magic resistance. Most of the big damage abilities in this game are magic damage. Also, the damage from Atmas is low enough that it's a better end-build item than a core item. You'll do good autoattacks but those axes and E are where the real fun is. That and a sheen.

It's counter-intuitive, but I used to play a 5k hitpoint "Thuglaf" build built around hitpoints and an Atmas and it just didn't work at all.

And remember when spamming Q, aim like right at your feet or half an inch away. If you can set-up Smartcast and get used to it, you can make this as easy as hovering your mouse on your target and mashing Q--really good. You'll be able to throw the axe every 2 seconds or so if you're constantly picking it up, which adds big burst damage (especially with sheen) and a constant slow. It's like a melee-range Urgot. Also remember that your W buffs your Q as well as letting you lifesteal from it, so keep mashing W while throwing Q and you'll be doing 400ish axe damage and walking around with 300 AD.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Phantom 2k

Senior Member

04-17-2011

I tried your build and went 6/10/12. Not TOO terrible, but still pretty bad. To be fair my entire team got raped and they were kind of fed. I was doing decent early game (was going 3-0 before the other team started picking up), a lot better than my previous build.

I guess I need to practice more with the character in general. I do use smart-cast with the Q spamming as well. What do you suggest to level up primarily? I kept them all about equal this game, but according to how you suggest I should play it seems like his W shouldn't have as much focus until later game.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions, it sucks I can't play Olaf by stacking HP - but at least this build makes him pretty decent.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Covenant

Senior Member

04-17-2011

Ouch, it does sound like you guys got rolled. Going 3-0 early is good though--not really your fault overall. Olaf is a carry but he can't carry if people blow him up. Judging from the match history you took an awful lot of damage from physical sources so you might have wanted to ignore my recommendations and have saved up for an early Sunfire, or skip the Wriggles and make an Aegis. That may be your best bet actually. I like Wriggles because it's so versatile and wards save lives, but you may need that Aegis early for survival since you're not level 30 and don't have a full page of runes.

With Olaf in a lane I'd make Q my priority, going Q, W, Q, E, Q, R, then working on my E pretty heavily.

In the jungle I go W, Q, Q, E, E, R.

The trick with BVeil is to get the catalyst early, then get the manamune, and until you have it build, to rely on special attacks for damage. Honestly, I think Olaf could use some love, but he's still the best "Can't stop me" hero for killing some worthless sniper in the back row.

The thing about Olaf is that he has to commit once you decide to fight--since he stands more of a chance of killing 3 guys than escaping them. This is why a good initiator like Rammus or Amumu or Galio is absolutely key. You're beefy, but NOBODY is beefy enough to simply walk into the enemy team alone. If you can get people to commit to one target before you ghost in to attack them, you're probably walking away with a kill or two.

As a laner I'd probably go Exhaust and Ghost. Cleanse is okay but you don't really need it much. You can't cleanse Ignite, but Exhaust can absolutely shut down someone like Yi or Trynd or Xin. That lets you have 3 more seconds of killing them without them doing anything.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Water Volcano

Senior Member

04-17-2011

jungle him and don't build warmogs. he can't last hit for the life of him and is susceptible to ranged heroes (as all melee heroes are). When I try to lane him I end up getting the majority of my last hits with my axe...not good. Warmogs may scale with his W but there are much better items to get for him first such as mallet, atmas and ghostblade. Pretty much my build is (jungling) razors, swiftness or treads, wriggles, frozen mallet, atmas and then its pretty situational. A lot of people also put Ghostblade in his core. Try not going for the early warmogs and jungle him. Im sure youll see a big difference.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TealNinje

Senior Member

04-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Covenant View Post
Ouch, it does sound like you guys got rolled. Going 3-0 early is good though--not really your fault overall. Olaf is a carry but he can't carry if people blow him up. Judging from the match history you took an awful lot of damage from physical sources so you might have wanted to ignore my recommendations and have saved up for an early Sunfire, or skip the Wriggles and make an Aegis. That may be your best bet actually. I like Wriggles because it's so versatile and wards save lives, but you may need that Aegis early for survival since you're not level 30 and don't have a full page of runes.

With Olaf in a lane I'd make Q my priority, going Q, W, Q, E, Q, R, then working on my E pretty heavily.

In the jungle I go W, Q, Q, E, E, R.

The trick with BVeil is to get the catalyst early, then get the manamune, and until you have it build, to rely on special attacks for damage. Honestly, I think Olaf could use some love, but he's still the best "Can't stop me" hero for killing some worthless sniper in the back row.

The thing about Olaf is that he has to commit once you decide to fight--since he stands more of a chance of killing 3 guys than escaping them. This is why a good initiator like Rammus or Amumu or Galio is absolutely key. You're beefy, but NOBODY is beefy enough to simply walk into the enemy team alone. If you can get people to commit to one target before you ghost in to attack them, you're probably walking away with a kill or two.

As a laner I'd probably go Exhaust and Ghost. Cleanse is okay but you don't really need it much. You can't cleanse Ignite, but Exhaust can absolutely shut down someone like Yi or Trynd or Xin. That lets you have 3 more seconds of killing them without them doing anything.
A few things Cov. First of all, you say to focus on highest AD synergy possible, while stilling mentioning Olaf's strongest ability: Undertow. You don't want AD, because Undertow has a pretty poor ratio. You want as much CDR as you can pack into as few items as possible, because Undertow is going to be your bread and butter. It has slow, it has huge damage at level 9, and most importantly, it has no cooldown at 40%.

Use flat CDR glyphs (blues) and pick up Glacial Shroud and Ionian Boots of Lucidity. That combo gives you 35% CDR, more than enough to spam Undertow faster than Karthus can spam Lay Waste. As these 2 items are both cheap, you can base your entire early game around farming to them, abusing Q's high base damage early on to harass and keep the enemy from closing on you. Despite what you might want to think, taking W at all is a bad idea, since to level it you have to take away from Q's high base damage or from E's ever decreasing cooldown. The total gold to farm both of your priority items: 1525 + 1050. If you start with a mana crystal, then knock 400 off of that. If you start with boots, knock off 350. You want to get boots before CDR, and to finish off Glacial Shroud before Ionian Boots of Lucidity UNLESS you started with boots, in which case finish off the IBoL.

Your build says 7500 gold for +98 damage. That's about +100 damage per second. Olaf already averages about 100 damage per second from his autoattack. My build says 2575 gold for 240 damage per cast, twice per second (if you're skilled with him). That's 2575 gold for 480 damage per second from Undertow. There won't be any time to autoattack with this build, but you can use Reckless Swing. Get those 2 priority items and you have the MOST efficient effect per gold out of ANY possible other item combination or champion. ~500 damage per second will be relevant at all points in the game; even if your damage itself starts slowing down, the fact that it can be maintained on their back line of squishies is not irrelevant. The enemy cannot stun, slow, fear or taunt you. They have options of blinding and silencing you. With my build, the only option they have is Silence - and being a priority silence target is fantastic.

Under most circumstances, I like to build my Olaf to have a very large HP pool. This is mainly because the enemy cannot dedicate their main DPS to focus me because that means they're ignoring my back line. On the other hand, they cannot ignore me because I eat up back lines. Under this circumstance, just being a gigantic meatbag is very effective, because they will focus you, and there aren't very many champs who innately have enough % of max hp to take you down before you kill at least one target. If you do happen to encounter enemies who have % of max hp abilities, then you just build high resistances instead - you do less damage, but you become tankier, and having high resistances actually makes your ult scale BETTER.

The variations to my build include: If they're all squishies with no % of hp, then Frozen Heart, Ionian Boots of Lucidity, Frozen Mallet or Rylai's Crystal Scepter (slow stacking is a must, since you need to focus on using your Q at precise range, and you can't let the enemy get away if you miss one), Warmog's Armor and Atma's Impaler. If they're heavy autoattackers then you want Frozen Heart, Randuin's Omen, Ionian Boots of Lucidity, Frozen Mallet, Manamune and an item depending on how the game goes. If they're heavy tanks, then Frozen Heart, Ionian Boots of Lucidity, Manamune, Frozen Mallet, Atma's Impaler and an item depending on the game. If they're heavy heavy casters, then Frozen Heart, Ionian Boots of Lucidity, Force of Nature, Banshee's Veil, Manamune and Warmog's.

CDR Olaf is a fantastic farmer - if you get fed early, 1 Q clears a full wave. If not, 2 Q's clear a full wave. If the game goes on longer, 3 Q's clear a full wave.

As a closing note: Olaf is a better caster than Kassadin; Kassadin is a better DPS than Olaf.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xvizzle

Senior Member

04-17-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by TealNinje View Post
As a closing note: Olaf is a better caster than Kassadin; Kassadin is a better DPS than Olaf.
Truth