Morgana and zilian

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Cradum

Senior Member

02-28-2010

Zilean = my main SO.
Apparently morgana's shield is around 5 seconds long? Zilean's bomb is 4 sec countdown to boomboom time. So if you see the shield come up, what i do is slow her down so even if she does stun me at least i have some breathing room until she rapes my ass. Usually twice (gg whoever got the joke)
Besides, Zilean is a SUPPORTER. Unless you're super pro (or have a good game) then you can go by yourself and kill half the team by yourself, other than that, stick to a buddy, and wait for the shield to come up, rape the other person, now it's 2v1 morgana.
All about teamwork, you'd rarely want to 1v1 anybody unless you're a tank. Which means you'll probably kill the person but then get ganked. So it's still kinda a lose-lose scenario.
But i agree, Morgana's shield is kinda op for casters. A Banchsee's idea is kinda lame, for zilean's bomb(s) would still be wasted if morgana had a banshee's veil.

But if you want to know OP Champs try Urdyr's freaking turtle stance bull****


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Amarath

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Senior Member

02-28-2010

Once again plz stop posting about heroes being OP or not this is not the matter of this thread.

And just so we can GET OUR FACTS RIGHT and STOP POSTING FALSE INFORMATION. AS PREVIOUSLY POINTED OUT. (her shield abs an unlimited number of bombs, not just 1).

And new additions:

Craxisis "Aye, but her shield only last 5 seconds... duh" try 8 at max rank witha 15 sec cd with a 12.75 % cd after a deathfire and possible room for CD runes. That equals out to be 13-8 = 5 of no shield vs 8 sec of shield. Now most people may think so what well in group battles that a big deal throw in a banshees' veil and its even worse.


The question being purposed is not can her shield take aoe damage from an bomb on a diffe4rent target if she waits next to those targets long enough. The question IS should riot change this mechanic, that no other hero has to deal with when they face me playing Morgana.


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SltrHouse

Senior Member

02-28-2010

Zilean wtfowns twitch

morgana wtfown zilean



who cares? every champ has their kryptonite


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EcoEco

Senior Member

02-28-2010

I don't get it. Why would a Zil with a player that have a brain put a Time bomb on a Morgana that have her shield up?

If Morgana see Zil walk closer to plant bomb and quickly place shield on top of herself and Zil see that his bomb failed. And Zil continues to do the same, then the player that is using Zil doesn't have a brain or need to learn to play. Learn to realized that this tactic doesn't work on Morgana, wait till she is in range so you don't have to move to plant the bomb OR waste a bomb, use your reduce CD skill and wait 5 seconds for her shield to go away and plant. Your CD>Morgana's CD. If you see Morgana pop her shield up after a bomb is placed then go throw ANOTHER bomb on top. This way is more effective than dealing 10-60 or so damage on Morgana since her shield soaked up most the damage.

I don't see why Morgana is being claimed as OP. If used right she is good, but not OP.


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F3nr1s

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Senior Member

02-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarath View Post
What i don't think you know what you are talking about lvl 1 shield can eat 100 bombs w/o taking damage , as black shield makes the target 100% immune to bombs.
Actually the shield makes her 100% invuln to spells until the damage exceeds the shield... Are you trying to say that bombs should still apply while she has her shield up? No... why? 1.) If a shield is up... most if not all will be absorbed anyway so what is the point? 2.) If you are going to allow this then there is no stopping other debuffs or spells from applying and just not affecting until dmg is reached which would make her shield virtually useless. That is the reason it is not leveled past 1 in most cases until late game. Her viability at a champion in competitive play would go way down if this was implemented.


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Mercurius

Senior Member

02-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuthian View Post
hur dur, it's hard to move a few steps sideways to avoid root.
Oh lordie lordie.
hur dur, it's hard to chain stun into roots and back into stuns.


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Amarath

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Senior Member

02-28-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by F3nr1s View Post
Actually the shield makes her 100% invuln to spells until the damage exceeds the shield... Are you trying to say that bombs should still apply while she has her shield up? No... why? 1.) If a shield is up... most if not all will be absorbed anyway so what is the point? 2.) If you are going to allow this then there is no stopping other debuffs or spells from applying and just not affecting until dmg is reached which would make her shield virtually useless. That is the reason it is not leveled past 1 in most cases until late game. Her viability at a champion in competitive play would go way down if this was implemented.
The point is other damage abilities (even those with slows etc) actually damage the shield at least, zilean's damage ability that doesn't have side effects does not damage her shield, UNLIKE EVER OTHER DAMAGE ABILITY IN THE GAME.

And no changing zileans bomb to stick on her through shield or insta blow up would change nothing in elo game other than have one less reason why zilean can never see an elo game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EcoEco View Post
I don't get it. Why would a Zil with a player that have a brain put a Time bomb on a Morgana that have her shield up?

If Morgana see Zil walk closer to plant bomb and quickly place shield on top of herself and Zil see that his bomb failed. And Zil continues to do the same, then the player that is using Zil doesn't have a brain or need to learn to play. Learn to realized that this tactic doesn't work on Morgana, wait till she is in range so you don't have to move to plant the bomb OR waste a bomb, use your reduce CD skill and wait 5 seconds for her shield to go away and plant. Your CD>Morgana's CD. If you see Morgana pop her shield up after a bomb is placed then go throw ANOTHER bomb on top. This way is more effective than dealing 10-60 or so damage on Morgana since her shield soaked up most the damage.

I don't see why Morgana is being claimed as OP. If used right she is good, but not OP.
1v1? 2v2, with the 2nd hanging back? Good morganas stack ap/hp and they are quasi chargers in most games , so zileans job is... to sit around and let her solo a tower because well she has a shield and a banshees veil? (is this what you suggest?)

And its not like a good morgana cannot stick a root (i stick 9 out of 10 that i fire) So u can say u will doge but i can shoot them from los (u never even see them comming), lead you, or flash in then charge the stun and all the while u can do 0 damage to me as zilean because i have > 8 secs of immunity from bombs (ie enough time for me to kill you and if you rez my root and black shield are back up and your gonna die again, because im immune to your damage).

its not 5 secs its 8 her shield last 8 secs. Once again this is not about op or not its about a unintened mechanic.


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Craixis

Senior Member

02-28-2010

Its counted as a debuff, and no other debuff works on her while her spell shield is up (I mean, what's a worse debuff, slowing you down by 55% for 2 seconds, or you blowing up half your team with a 600 damage bomb).
But yeah, if you double bomb a minion near her, the magic damage blows her shield, if she's alone, you double bomb yourself to blow her shield (you have to get into melee range first, Flash is good for this), then slow her down and rewind and repeat.
My arguement was to point out that just because you can't plant it on her, doesn't make the bomb useless against her, you're just not using it right in that scenario. Minions make great counters for that shield, Bomb/Smite is equally as effective (and saves you a time bomb as well, to plant on Morg).

Granted, if Morg is smart she won't let you near her, but that's what flash/ghostwalk/cleanse is for.
There's the point I was trying to make.


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Amarath

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Senior Member

03-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craixis View Post
Its counted as a debuff, and no other debuff works on her while her spell shield is up (I mean, what's a worse debuff, slowing you down by 55% for 2 seconds, or you blowing up half your team with a 600 damage bomb).
But yeah, if you double bomb a minion near her, the magic damage blows her shield, if she's alone, you double bomb yourself to blow her shield (you have to get into melee range first, Flash is good for this), then slow her down and rewind and repeat.
My arguement was to point out that just because you can't plant it on her, doesn't make the bomb useless against her, you're just not using it right in that scenario. Minions make great counters for that shield, Bomb/Smite is equally as effective (and saves you a time bomb as well, to plant on Morg).

Granted, if Morg is smart she won't let you near her, but that's what flash/ghostwalk/cleanse is for.
There's the point I was trying to make.
Ok lets look at your point your solution to morgana being pretty much immune to zilean is what STAND NEXT TO HER?

Thats a great idea seeign as well she can't miss you with a root so u may hit her with 1 bomb [if placed on yourself and you use flash] (which her shield will eat much of, and she has tons of hp) Then what oh your rooted and takign root plus aoe damage , and wait if you get out of that (stand next to her and all) your stunned with her ult.

This is a way to surely die vs morgana, that is not a viable tactic at all.

So far in this thread we have had:

1. people who don't address the topic (just talk about how she not op)

2. people that say, just bomb her twice that will get rid of her shield.

3. people that act like black shield last for only 5 secs.

4. people that suggest just bombing minions next to her. (because you know she sits behind them so she can root gud, this is sarcasm).

5. people who suggest of all things STANDING NEXT TO MORGANA (which is where you don't want to be with morgana).

6. people that say because its a debuff, so is kayle's, mudo's throw, and a ton more abilities but you know what their damage portions hit her shield, and seeing as ZILEAN'S ONLY DAMAGE ABILITY (READ 1) SHE IS IMMUNE TO.

7. People who suggest slowing her down when you can't bomb her because of black shield (which shows most people are just saying random junk without knowing what they are saying, becuase if she is immune to bombs, guess what, she is immune to slow) Sure u can speed yourself up but may people in this thread saying its no big deal suggested that, becuase they are obviously oblivious of the mechanics they are defending.

PS. remember she can shield others too.

I have no problem with morgana , im saying this again, what needs to be fixed is zileans bomb needs to stick through black shield or insta blow up. Only, because it is literally not worth play zilean if morgana is on the other team.


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Craixis

Senior Member

03-01-2010

You did read the part where you double bomb yourself to blow her shield right, sure, she'll snare you, but you slow her down so she can't catch you with the second shot of soul link, bomb her again, pop rez if needed, and continue.
I mean, if you come at a problem at a different angle you'll get through it, but as I pointed out, the bomb is a debuff. Debuffs, no matter the shape or form, do not hurt her when her shield is up.
Black shield only last for about 5 seconds, its not incredibly long, I've played both characters in this discussion. Try morg out, fight a decent Zil, almost anyone else has seen the logic behind my tactic other than you.
Mundo's throw does damage on hit, so does Kayles Slow. Zilean's is a Debuff which procs after 4 seconds, it can't proc unless it plants the debuff (This would put you in Check, mate). Another Morg's dark binding will not effect her at all either.
Sure, she might not hide right behind minions, however, she has to get close of them to push or hit you. Flash near her after she pops her snare and D-bomb yourself so you're not in her Tormented Soil (Morg usually uses it right with the snare if it hits, this'll catch her off gaurd) and are able to screw with her some more. Sure, you'll take a bit of damage, but you can easily get out of the second proc of Soul Link and Nuke her some more (and, as a last ditch effort, you can heal yourself to full with chrono-shift, and continue the nukage against her).
I've given you ways that I deal with her, but you argue facts you think are right, against ones I know are right (and tested, I might add).
Play Morg a bit, you'll see that her black shield isn't nearly as effective against a good Zil as you make it out to be. And don't try to claim that I'm a Morg player defending an unfair mechinic, I've used her once to see what she can do (Also, Zilean is second on my most played list, right under Teemo... I'm not a scrub, well, with Morg I am, but not the point).

And by people, you might want to look at the posters, scrub... most of the suggestions were made by me and other Zil main players.
I may not be high ELO, but I do know how to deal with Morg/Karth/Nasus/Veigar/Ryze/Fiddles/Gang/Teemo/Almost any other Champion (There are few I don't see enough to learn how to deal with, such as Anivia and Jax, though Jax is becoming more popular.)